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Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

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Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#131

Post by conistonwater »

Dove wrote: post #84
itg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"More diversity (in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in schools) would certainly help" I'm not so sure. I went to a very diverse and large high school in NJ and what ends up happening is self segregation. All the ethnic groups would mostly end up hanging out with their own types.

Yeah, I think it has more to do with how you're taught to think about people than what you're exposed to. I grew up in Spokane, WA -- 87% white by demographic survey, 98% people who look white if all you know about race is what you learned in Social Studies in elementary school. :) But what I was dominantly taught about who 'my people' were came from Christianity -- Christ died for everyone. My tribe is humanity. I w…

Your quote is really ambiguous, I can't figure it out at all. Is there something wrong with Seattle black people? Surely not, but then just what exactly does that mean?

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#132

Post by wutangson1 »

lotsofmangos wrote: post #120
wutangson1 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Plato is the author of the Dialogues of Socrates. My bad if my last sentence was written unclearly to seems as if Aristotle was a student of Socrates. Yet, I suggest going back to that same link you posted and read all of Book II of the Nicomachean Ethics where Aristotle defines courage and what is the only real justification for war. After reading Book II, by the time you get to Book VII, you may not think Aris…

The real man/woman of science is obviously the hermaphroditic god-head at the center of creation. Any fool knows that.

hackneyed

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#133

Post by spopejoy »

itjustdontwork wrote: post #55
moron4hire wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, once communities start out segregated, they stay segregated.

Unfortunately Why is it unfortunate? No white person in their right mind would honestly prefer to live in a half-black community over an all-white community. Sure, they may say they would to save political face, or to look benevolent or "tolerant" and progressive, but deep down? No. The difference in crime rates and quality of life is just astounding. To prefer to live amongst more blacks is to prefer to be more at r…

What's unfortunate is this attitude of "just face it, everybody stays away from (poor|black|stupid|ugly|martian) people, anybody who denies it is a hypocrite". Speak for yourself, own up to your prejudices, don't project them on others.

I've lived in "half-black" (wtf?? more like just "black") neighborhoods in Brooklyn, and Oakland CA. I prefer it to lily-white neighborhoods. Got carjacked once, have bars on my windows currently, projects are nearby. There's also a vibrancy to the neighborhood, in the music, the clothes, the attitude, that is precious. There are cultural differences, if you talk to folks on the street it's best to be sensitive and aware of nuances of communication. The reward is fresh perspectives, genuine encounters with different people. It's just plain stimulating. And no Starbucks either.

Sure, my ideal neighborhood would be less impacted by poverty, but I would slit my wrists if I lived in Park Slope or the Upper West Side.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#134

Post by sysk »

jxm262 wrote: post #126

love this. "A large part of our attitude toward things is conditioned by opinions and emotions which we unconsciously absorb as children from our environment. In other words, it is tradition—besides inherited aptitudes and qualities—which makes us what we are. We but rarely reflect how relatively small as compared with the powerful influence of tradition is the influence of our conscious thought upon our conduct and…

I was about to quote the same paragraph. It is the one thing in this text that is truly timeless.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#135

Post by n72 »

calibraxis wrote: post #86
schimmy_changa wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure why this is being downvoted... People are asking above "What, however, can the man of good will do to combat this deeply rooted prejudice?". One prong of this prejudice is the structure of our justice system, and participating in these marches can help that.

It's downvoted because it's currently the most serious and rational post on actually solving oppression. Rather than musing abstractly about some dead white scientist talking about blacks. (While taking a break from making money for investors/bosses.) Speaking of prominent white activist intellectuals, here's Chomsky's view on Einstein: "Compare Russell and Einstein, two leading figures, roughly the same generation.…

"some dead white scientist"

You do realize Einstein was a Jew who was forced to leave Germany because of Nazism, right?

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#136

Post by swatow »

mfringel wrote: post #106
swatow wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The maths demonstrates the consequences of different distribution of attitudes. It demonstrates the consequences of a modeling different distributions of attitudes in a particular way. >What the model does demonstrate is that the set and distribution of viewpoints that will lead to desegrated neighbourhoods is far smaller than people tend to think. It is much easier to end up with segregation than most people would…

Are you arguing for the invalidity of most, if not all agent-based simulations?

Yes I am. I don't think they are a useful way to think about the world.

One model in isolation can appear compelling, as some other posts in this thread indicate. But you can't view them in isolation, because all the model shows is that a simulation with certain properties exists. The problem is that:

1. There are a huge number of ways to model the same process. There are many details of the model that could be changed or tweaked, each giving different results. This is a bigger problem for agent based simulations than traditional game-theoretic/economic models (although it's a pretty big problem in both cases).

2. Even if you know that your model is the "right" one for the process you're interesting, in the real world all kinds of processes are interlinked. E.g. racial segregation is highly linked with Southern vs Northern, rural vs urban and wealthy vs poor. It's possible that there things swamp the process that the simulation is modeling. Even if they don't they can make the data so messy that it's impossible to test the model empirically (not that there was any attempt in this case).

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#137

Post by fsloth »

doomlaser wrote: post #124
washedup wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more that the opposition is real. I have witnessed much of it living in a divided city like Chicago. The most difficult question about it is what we can do to shift government attention and resources? Not in the form of police cameras, squad cars, or militarization, but in the form of education and infrastructure projects. This is only a small part of the question, however. A bigger issue is not where…

One of the biggest peaceful protests on this issue is happening today, across the nation, but you wouldn't know it from the Hacker News frontpage. It's been troubling seeing any links about the Ferguson and Eric Garner protests wiped from Hacker News before they attract very many upvotes. The issues being debated encompass government action, fundamental technology and privacy rights, as well as race, but they're bein…

Previous discussions about why not to discuss current issues in politics in HN have included the conclusions a) they are off topic and b) usually result in low quality discussion, sadly.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#138

Post by cityboy0 »

nyolfen wrote: post #72
lexcorvus wrote: post #60

Many a sincere person will answer: "Our attitude towards Negroes is the result of unfavorable experiences which we have had by living side by side with Negroes in this country. They are not our equals in intelligence, sense of responsibility, reliability." I am firmly convinced that whoever believes this suffers from a fatal misconception. Although it has clear political implications, the last part of the quote-withi…

oh noo the racists will be called racist, such material oppression

So what you're saying is facts don't matter and should be ignored and are "racist" if they come from evil straight white males and put non-whites in a bad light? Interesting. How righteous.

"First they came for the people who tried to have a scientific discussion about race... but I did not speak out, because the scientific findings offended me and invalidated my world view."

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#139

Post by coldtea »

itjustdontwork wrote: post #55
moron4hire wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, once communities start out segregated, they stay segregated.

Unfortunately Why is it unfortunate? No white person in their right mind would honestly prefer to live in a half-black community over an all-white community. Sure, they may say they would to save political face, or to look benevolent or "tolerant" and progressive, but deep down? No. The difference in crime rates and quality of life is just astounding. To prefer to live amongst more blacks is to prefer to be more at r…

>No white person in their right mind would honestly prefer to live in a half-black community over an all-white community.

Well, some do. In their right minds et all. And could not care less about such racist BS. Except if you mean that the black neighborhood is poorer and less developed, so they might prefer the richer one.

Here's a well known example:

[Johny Otis] grew up in a predominantly black neighborhood in Berkeley, California, where his father owned a neighborhood grocery store. Otis became well known for his choice to live his professional and personal life as a member of the African-American community. He wrote, "As a kid I decided that if our society dictated that one had to be black or white, I would be black.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#140

Post by dragonwriter »

doomlaser wrote: post #124
washedup wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more that the opposition is real. I have witnessed much of it living in a divided city like Chicago. The most difficult question about it is what we can do to shift government attention and resources? Not in the form of police cameras, squad cars, or militarization, but in the form of education and infrastructure projects. This is only a small part of the question, however. A bigger issue is not where…

One of the biggest peaceful protests on this issue is happening today, across the nation, but you wouldn't know it from the Hacker News frontpage. It's been troubling seeing any links about the Ferguson and Eric Garner protests wiped from Hacker News before they attract very many upvotes. The issues being debated encompass government action, fundamental technology and privacy rights, as well as race, but they're bein…

The intent of Hacker News is to be news of particular interest to the "hacker" (defined in a somewhat unclear and unusually broad way, but still) community, not particularly news of general interests that is of interest to members of that community for generally the same reason and to the same extent as of the more general community.

There are plenty of other forums with different intended purposes where such discussions are less ephemeral than on HN.

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