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Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

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Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#21

Post by swatow »

rogerallen wrote: post #9
lpsz wrote: post #3

What, however, can the man of good will do to combat this deeply rooted prejudice? More diversity (in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in schools) would certainly help -- the transition from "us" and "them" to a unified "us." And yet, it's disappointing how segregated America still is today. One fairly in-depth study [1] offers an example of how "today" came to be. (This report is not about any current events, but rathe…

if you haven't seen this, there's even some math to explain how "today" came to be. http://ncase.me/polygons/

Mathematical models can be used to argue for a wide range of viewpoints.

You could also write a model where people have different innate preferences over the lifestyle they want to lead, and so self-sorting is an unambiguously good thing.

I understand that everyone wants "math" to be on their side, but it's not really mathematics that is doing the work here, it's your assumptions.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#22

Post by revscat »

What makes this discussion so much more frustrating today is that the racial biases are inherent in the system. While the laws are structured to be. Entrap, their application is decidedly not. While I, a white male, choose to do as Einstein here suggests and live a life of example, and teach my children the destructiveness of racism, my actions do not directly help those in my country who are suffering from official and unofficial forms of discrimination.

I want to do more, but... "What can men do in the face of such reckless hate?"

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#24

Post by angrybits »

lpsz wrote: post #3

What, however, can the man of good will do to combat this deeply rooted prejudice? More diversity (in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in schools) would certainly help -- the transition from "us" and "them" to a unified "us." And yet, it's disappointing how segregated America still is today. One fairly in-depth study [1] offers an example of how "today" came to be. (This report is not about any current events, but rathe…

An increase in diversity is a goal, it's not a course of action. We should be trying to root out whatever the underlying causes are that lead us to segregate ourselves into the groups that we end up in. Forced de-segregation (as in the case of bussing kids around in public school districts) is only temporary, as the people who want to be in their groups will take action to achieve that end.

For whatever it is worth, I think income inequality (between rich and poor, all races) is probably the biggest inhibitor to this problem. Motivated-yet-poor people cannot easily break out of their groups, with no money for college and (alot of times) a criminal record preventing them from enlisting in the service. If you have resources you have choices, and the poor have very little in the way of choice. And the affluent who do have a choice will almost always make the choice to not live among those who have nothing to lose, whatever their color may be.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#25

Post by LukeShu »

itg wrote: post #12
lpsz wrote: post #3

What, however, can the man of good will do to combat this deeply rooted prejudice? More diversity (in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in schools) would certainly help -- the transition from "us" and "them" to a unified "us." And yet, it's disappointing how segregated America still is today. One fairly in-depth study [1] offers an example of how "today" came to be. (This report is not about any current events, but rathe…

"More diversity (in neighborhoods, in workplaces, in schools) would certainly help" I'm not so sure. I went to a very diverse and large high school in NJ and what ends up happening is self segregation. All the ethnic groups would mostly end up hanging out with their own types.

I also went to a very diverse highschool (recently; class of 2012), and saw the same self-segregation. However, when I saw the census dotmap that was on here a while ago[1], it was obvious that even though the school district was diverse, each of the neighborhoods was clearly a "${race} neighborhood". I'm willing to believe that the self segregation in-school reflected the segregation outside of school; that more diverse schools and neighborhoods might solve this.

[1]: http://bmander.com/dotmap/index.html though it seems to be down now

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#26

Post by josh_fyi »

blazespin wrote: post #5

I was always impressed by his stand against zionism. http://www.newdemocracyworld.org/old/einstein.htm

He supported Labor Zionism. Like other Labor Zionists, he opposed the right wing of Zionism. Also, like other so-called cultural Zionists, he was more concerned with establishing a homeland where Jews could express their culture, but was less concerned with having a sovereign state. Indeed at that time, the land was a "mandate" under British rule, neither Jewish nor Arab. (In those days, many lands were ruled by European empires. The notion that each non-European nation needed its own state only solidified later, partially under Israel's example.)

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/12/how-eins...

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#28

Post by wutangson1 »

mariodiana wrote: post #4

The thing I like is the reference to Aristotle. Today, there are some people who are too quick to brand anyone who disagrees with their enlightened views as a "moron" or worse. There's no winning hearts and minds that way. It's better to gently point out the mistakes of those who are otherwise worthy of respect, in the hopes that this will spur others towards self-reflection, than to castigate and put people on the d…

Great point, even considering that Einstein seems to be taking Aristotle and ancient Greek dogma totally out of context. Perhaps, as was and is a tradition in academic circles, he was advocating that contemporary scientists were in fact better and more enlightened than the Greeks. Or, maybe it was a reaction against Hitler's fascination with the ancient Greeks. Yet, Aristotle did not present a clear belief system on slavery, especially considering that even Socrates dialogue Meno, he makes the case for the equality and infinite capacity of all humankind.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#29

Post by whistlerbrk »

mariodiana wrote: post #4

The thing I like is the reference to Aristotle. Today, there are some people who are too quick to brand anyone who disagrees with their enlightened views as a "moron" or worse. There's no winning hearts and minds that way. It's better to gently point out the mistakes of those who are otherwise worthy of respect, in the hopes that this will spur others towards self-reflection, than to castigate and put people on the d…

You are spot on. When we put people in the defensive they often entrench themselves in their position, sometimes even knowing they are/may be wrong.

Re: Einstein: The Negro Question (1946)

#30

Post by vinceguidry »

Anyone interested in this topic should read Karen Armstrong's Fields of Blood

http://www.amazon.com/Fields-Blood-Religion-History-Violence...

The first chapter gives a very good rationale for where hatred and subjugation of the 'other' comes from and the book traces how this kind of socialized violence evolved over the ages.

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