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Google to close engineering office in Russia

reuters.com

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Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#111

Post by jazzyk »

minimax wrote: post #91
ThinkBeat wrote: post #53

it is worrying what is happening in Russia but much less so than what is going in the USA. Google, Facbook etc tightly integrated with the nations intelligence agencies, mining the data found there to make secret lists that could result in assassinations, indefinite detention and torture. Russias actions are for the most part overt, and rightly criticized, what the US does, it does so covertly. If anyone speaks about…

We hear a lot about Russian dissidents leaving Russia because they have their freedom limited. Snowden and Julian Assange have had their freedom limited to much more so than any of the Putin dissidents. (With the exception of the possibility that a couple of them have been assassinated) Assange has a TV show on Russian state television, and Snowden is a guy who fled to Russia with literally thousands of stolen NSA do…

You are using the exact "reasoning"/propaganda that communist regimes used in Eastern Europe in the past. EVERY dissident who fled to a Western country was automatically labeled a spy.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#112

Post by curiously »

danmaz74 wrote: post #28

Putin is increasingly cracking down on any possibility of dissent and threat to his power, whatever the consequences to the Russian economy, and this of course scares foreign companies who work there - even if, with the recent fall of the ruble, Russian talent is even more affordable now. I'm afraid (I have friends in Russia) that we're going to see more of this.

Do you think Putin can keep this up with the falling currency and economy crashing? Or does he have a stronghold on everyone with guns that nobody could take him down?

I wonder if Russia could change to a more democratic and liberal tone after Putin. I mean, it seems like Putin wants to go back straight to Soviet era.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#114

Post by nemanja »

schrodinger wrote: post #60
ThinkBeat wrote: post #53

it is worrying what is happening in Russia but much less so than what is going in the USA. Google, Facbook etc tightly integrated with the nations intelligence agencies, mining the data found there to make secret lists that could result in assassinations, indefinite detention and torture. Russias actions are for the most part overt, and rightly criticized, what the US does, it does so covertly. If anyone speaks about…

Sorry, but I really don't buy the argument that USA is worse than Russia in this respect. Snowden, while I totally applaud what he did and would love to see him pardoned, or protected under whistleblower laws, leaked a ton of highly classified information. Again, I think he did the right thing, but him being prosecuted is not the same as "if anyone speaks about the actions the U.S. takes in secret they are hunted to…

If Snowden blew the whistle (to the minimum extent possible to inform the public about what was happening) and stayed in the U.S. to face the music, I could buy the argument that he was a hero and deserves a pardon. What he did instead is that he fled to our biggest foe and revealed publicly a lot of tactical information that only serves to hurt U.S. intelligence operations abroad. Further, we will never know what he sold to Russia to earn his welcome. Now he's a part of a propaganda machine of a tyrannical regime. Sorry, but that makes him a Russian agent, traitor and a dirtbag.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#115

Post by dchichkov »

_wmd wrote: post #58
riffraff wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which I have to think will be well received. sorry I can't read the english here, do you expect it to be well received (why? seems like it would be a though choice for many people even with a relocation package) or are you expressing hope it will be?

The value of the rouble has collapsed over the past year, I think he means tech workers would only be too happy to leave.

I think he means that most tech workers there wouldn't be just fired. They would be offered relocation packages. It is better than being just fired, thus it would be well received.

(Don't forget that although you think that Moscow is in the middle of Siberia and the city is a one big communist radioactive dump that you saw in the movies, actually, the reality is far from it. People there are surprisingly happy, good looking and the city is quite beautiful, especially in the summer. Europe is just 3 hours on an airplane from there. And to be a tech worker there at Google, with middle-class salary is quite nice. On the other hand, the long-term outlook is a bit gloomy, so...)

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#116

Post by curiously »

osipov wrote: post #77
happyscrappy wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia is only a threat to its own citizens and border countries who are not members of NATO. The West was bringing Russia closer, now that trust is gone and will take a long time to repair.

>>The West was bringing Russia closer As part of bringing Russia closer, the West decided to shred Russia of its defense interests inherited from the Soviet Union. There was a systematic attack by the West on Russia's interests in Central Asia, Georgia, Syria, and now Ukraine. You can only bait the bear for so long until it bites you back.

You sound like one of the many Russian comment spam bots from Reddit news threads about anything Russian.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#117

Post by Yizahi »

osipov wrote: post #62
danmaz74 wrote: post #28

Putin is increasingly cracking down on any possibility of dissent and threat to his power, whatever the consequences to the Russian economy, and this of course scares foreign companies who work there - even if, with the recent fall of the ruble, Russian talent is even more affordable now. I'm afraid (I have friends in Russia) that we're going to see more of this.

That's a very myopic view and here's why -- virtually all governments in the world are becoming increasingly authoritarian because of the global economic crisis and the civilian unrest that it provokes. For example, replace Putin in your sentence and you'll get "United States is increasingly cracking down on any possibility of dissent and threat to it power". You can support that statement with facts about police in…

Putin and most of the Russian government are criminals, so it is not hard to see why they are doing it.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#118

Post by curiously »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #53

it is worrying what is happening in Russia but much less so than what is going in the USA. Google, Facbook etc tightly integrated with the nations intelligence agencies, mining the data found there to make secret lists that could result in assassinations, indefinite detention and torture. Russias actions are for the most part overt, and rightly criticized, what the US does, it does so covertly. If anyone speaks about…

How many Americans would move to Russia vs Russians moving to America?

Apples and oranges my friend. Using the same academic tone, one could make even North Korea sound like a great civilized place to be, but then when you get there it isn't anything.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#119

Post by Yizahi »

osipov wrote: post #100
aragot wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real question is WHY is Putin cracking down on threat to his power? Sounds like a rhetorical question but I don't guess the answer. Do you mean Putin is doing it because of the civilian unrest? > Demonizing Putin is what your government wants you to do to avoid seeing the bigger picture. No-one is demonizing Putin, they're telling facts. The bigger picture is, censorship is bad, and if US defends the freedom of…

>>No-one is demonizing Putin, they're telling facts. Really? Much in the same way that the media of 10 years ago convinced the populace that Hussein was involved with 9/11, the media today is propagating the following memes: - Putin hates gays - Putin kills journalists - Putin was responsible for downing of MH17 How many of these memes are supported by facts? When accusing a leader of a nuclear power of these things,…

Putin has started Russia-Ukraine war in February and Russian troops has downed MH17 using Russian AA complex. So he is responsible obviously.

Putin regime has killed several journalists.

The gay thing is not so clear, he may be gay himself.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#120

Post by existencebox »

osipov wrote: post #100
aragot wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real question is WHY is Putin cracking down on threat to his power? Sounds like a rhetorical question but I don't guess the answer. Do you mean Putin is doing it because of the civilian unrest? > Demonizing Putin is what your government wants you to do to avoid seeing the bigger picture. No-one is demonizing Putin, they're telling facts. The bigger picture is, censorship is bad, and if US defends the freedom of…

>>No-one is demonizing Putin, they're telling facts. Really? Much in the same way that the media of 10 years ago convinced the populace that Hussein was involved with 9/11, the media today is propagating the following memes: - Putin hates gays - Putin kills journalists - Putin was responsible for downing of MH17 How many of these memes are supported by facts? When accusing a leader of a nuclear power of these things,…

While I think it's very appropriate to question media portrayals, I think you crossed a line in suggesting that russian treatment of gays is "a meme." (If I'm interpreting you too strongly, I apologize, but please just skim http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia a bit, especially the section on "national law"; for me at least this leaves very little of the governments stance to question)

Similarly, when given such data as ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_R... ) it's very hard to suspect there isn't something amiss; this theory guided as well with russia's likely history of using assassinations as a tool prior. (I hate to bring up the Alexander Litvinenko case as that it's probably been beaten to death, but I think it's fair to say it doesn't lend me to trust the Russian govt.)

It's all fine and good to call for fact checking, but to neglect to take in the same facts you so loudly call for, you do yourself a great disservice.

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