Google to close engineering office in Russia • Hacker News Board

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#101

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 3:06 PM UTC

minimax wrote: post #91

ThinkBeat wrote: post #53

it is worrying what is happening in Russia but much less so than what is going in the USA. Google, Facbook etc tightly integrated with the nations intelligence agencies, mining the data found there to make secret lists that could result in assassinations, indefinite detention and torture. Russias actions are for the most part overt, and rightly criticized, what the US does, it does so covertly. If anyone speaks about…

We hear a lot about Russian dissidents leaving Russia because they have their freedom limited. Snowden and Julian Assange have had their freedom limited to much more so than any of the Putin dissidents. (With the exception of the possibility that a couple of them have been assassinated) Assange has a TV show on Russian state television, and Snowden is a guy who fled to Russia with literally thousands of stolen NSA do…

[deleted]

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#102

Post by melling » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 3:08 PM UTC

mkhaytman wrote: post #90

muglug wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Espionage (what the US programs were for) is very different than the widespread victimisation of those who are seen as undesirable. The Russian government is actively conspiring to silence hundreds of thousands of people. Whether it's because they were unfortunate enough to have been born gay, or because they want to talk about Russia's annexation of eastern Ukraine, or whether they just don't think Putin should be i…

There's really no need for the comparisons. Both versions are terrible, who cares which is worse. How we go about fixing it should be the topic of discussion.

No, one is clearly much worse than the other. Many journalists have been killed in Russia, for example.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in...

I imagine if a Russian version of Snowden ever occurred, he wouldn't remain alive to continue leaking documents.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#103

Post by happyscrappy » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 3:09 PM UTC

mkhaytman wrote: post #90

muglug wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Espionage (what the US programs were for) is very different than the widespread victimisation of those who are seen as undesirable. The Russian government is actively conspiring to silence hundreds of thousands of people. Whether it's because they were unfortunate enough to have been born gay, or because they want to talk about Russia's annexation of eastern Ukraine, or whether they just don't think Putin should be i…

There's really no need for the comparisons. Both versions are terrible, who cares which is worse. How we go about fixing it should be the topic of discussion.

So the West and Russia are equally bad? Who cares which is worse? The people who live there.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#104

Post by watt » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 3:09 PM UTC

osipov wrote: post #89

okatsu wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't disagree that demonizing Putin is what the government wants us to do. I remember how the U.S. funded Saddam to use chemical weapons on Iran and then overthrew him "for the sake of the people." However, it should also be kept in mind that we're still far away from the Russian regime where speaking against the government (releasing classified documents doesn't count) or being a homosexual will land you in jail.…

> Speaking in favor of gay rights is considered propaganda and was made illegal last year. That's false. EDIT: Again, the statement above is false. It is legal to speak in favor of gay rights. It is illegal for adults to speak in favor of gay rights TO MINORS. Much like it is legal to have sex. And illegal for adults to have sex with minors.

Not quite false. Here's the law in question I believe: http://asozd2.duma.gov.ru/main.nsf/%28Spravka%29?OpenAgent&R...

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#105

Post by osipov » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 3:09 PM UTC

muglug wrote: post #69

ThinkBeat wrote: post #53

it is worrying what is happening in Russia but much less so than what is going in the USA. Google, Facbook etc tightly integrated with the nations intelligence agencies, mining the data found there to make secret lists that could result in assassinations, indefinite detention and torture. Russias actions are for the most part overt, and rightly criticized, what the US does, it does so covertly. If anyone speaks about…

Espionage (what the US programs were for) is very different than the widespread victimisation of those who are seen as undesirable. The Russian government is actively conspiring to silence hundreds of thousands of people. Whether it's because they were unfortunate enough to have been born gay, or because they want to talk about Russia's annexation of eastern Ukraine, or whether they just don't think Putin should be i…

Are you still repeating that "putin hates gays" meme?! Read the facts: http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d0e55f3197099944345708652/files...

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#106

Post by debacle » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 3:10 PM UTC

melling wrote: post #97

debacle wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US government is also actively conspiring to silence hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people, and they have been doing so since before Martin Luther King's days. They're just far more subversive about it because they're sitting on reams of money.

Could you be more explicit and provide some examples.

"Freedom zones," trying to get MLK to commit suicide, the Red Scare, subversion of activist groups during the Nixon years, Kent State, manipulation of social networks and Wikipedia, controlling the media to the point that it might as well be called the state media unless you're watching BBC or Comedy Central.

I could go on and on. The Russians are not worse than the US, they're just not as good at hiding it.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#107

Post by kyledrake » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 3:13 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #40

chkuendig wrote: post #30

Might be a coincidence, but they also just announced plans to rent 50'000 square meters of office space in Zurich http://www.handelszeitung.ch/unternehmen/google-investiert-d...

I wonder why is Zurich a big part of Google's strategy as opposed to other places in Europe

As one of the world's most neutral countries, Switzerland has historically been a pretty good place to establish an autonomous, neutral, predictably-regulated business when governments are going crazy (which, frankly, they have been lately). If the rest of the world goes nuts, they'll be able to pull out and move base to Zurich, which is not likely to be subject to a war or other major political upsets.

Switzerland is historically infamous for having these qualities, it's why even the Nazis used them to deposit money. They also don't have things like DMCA laws. War aside, let's say the corporate lobby gets them to push the screws on DMCA to make it worse. Hello new Youtube HQ.

TLDR: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8740289

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#108

Post by minimax » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 3:15 PM UTC

ThinkBeat wrote: post #96

minimax wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We hear a lot about Russian dissidents leaving Russia because they have their freedom limited. Snowden and Julian Assange have had their freedom limited to much more so than any of the Putin dissidents. (With the exception of the possibility that a couple of them have been assassinated) Assange has a TV show on Russian state television, and Snowden is a guy who fled to Russia with literally thousands of stolen NSA do…

Does that mean that North Korean dissidents who speak about against the regime when they escape are CIA agents?

If a North Korean signals intelligence officer managed to smuggle thousands of strategic DPRK intelligence documents and himself out of North Korea, I would assume it was with the help of a foreign government.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#109

Post by ThinkBeat » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 3:18 PM UTC

zarriak wrote: post #94

ThinkBeat wrote: post #53

it is worrying what is happening in Russia but much less so than what is going in the USA. Google, Facbook etc tightly integrated with the nations intelligence agencies, mining the data found there to make secret lists that could result in assassinations, indefinite detention and torture. Russias actions are for the most part overt, and rightly criticized, what the US does, it does so covertly. If anyone speaks about…

The biggest thing about the difference between Russia and the United States is the end goal of their actions. Putin is ensuring his power base, while the US is trying to stop terrorism. I don't like what they are doing but this is what the NSA thinks what works to stop terrorism. If you look at both President Obama and President Bush they did close to the same things regarding national security. It may be a faulty as…

You have drunk the cool aid.

Everything the US does is to maintain their global position of power. The end goal is obedience to the US and control over as many natural resource and territories as possible. Either directly through military force, or preferably through subversion, coercion and integration.

This is not unique to the US, it is what empires do, and the US is now the biggest empire ever created. We have and continue to cooperate with, fund, and protect some of the most brutal regimes the world has ever seen.

Ours is not a noble mission with just wars to free the slaves of the world and introduce democracy. The only way democracy is acceptable is if the American candidate is electable. If the natives happen to make the wrong choice, coups happen, sanctions happen, directly military action happens.

These are not conspiracies, extreme leftist propaganda or the ramblings of Americas enemies, they are historic facts.

Are there other bad regimes in the world? Of course. Have their been regimes worse than the US? That depends. If you only want to talk about life in main land US, of course much much worse than that. If you include what regimes supported by the US has done it is hard to say yes or no.

Re: Google to close engineering office in Russia

#110

Post by unprepare » Fri, Dec 12, 2014, 3:19 PM UTC

osipov wrote: post #89

okatsu wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't disagree that demonizing Putin is what the government wants us to do. I remember how the U.S. funded Saddam to use chemical weapons on Iran and then overthrew him "for the sake of the people." However, it should also be kept in mind that we're still far away from the Russian regime where speaking against the government (releasing classified documents doesn't count) or being a homosexual will land you in jail.…

> Speaking in favor of gay rights is considered propaganda and was made illegal last year. That's false. EDIT: Again, the statement above is false. It is legal to speak in favor of gay rights. It is illegal for adults to speak in favor of gay rights TO MINORS. Much like it is legal to have sex. And illegal for adults to have sex with minors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia#Propagand...

No, it isnt. key point from the text:

Under the statute it is effectively illegal to hold any gay pride events, speak in favor of gay rights, or say that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships in presence of minors.[5][57][60][64][65]