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Streem – a new programming language from Matz

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Re: Streem – a new programming language from Matz

#181

Post by MarkSweep »

emmanueloga_ wrote: post #173
lgleason wrote: post #158

I love Ruby and I love Matz. With that being said there are some things that Ruby struggles with. I know that there have been some conversations among the core on bringing in more functional concepts to Ruby....at least since April. To me this says that Matz is coming to the conclusion that we may need a new language to get functional right. While I am sad to see that Ruby may be superseded by a new language I'm real…

> "Matz is nice and therefore we are nice" This non sequitur annoys me. Deconstructing it: * A: "Matz is nice": Let's say we all agree this is true. * B: "we are nice": i.e., the ruby community is nice. * P(A -> B): (A therefore B) is a slogan, so I assume the proposition P is believed to be true. Is it? In order for P to be true, the only option is for B to be true as long as Matz keeps being nice. Assuming Matz is…

I don't understand the original quote to be a proposition. I think what it's trying to say is "Matz is nice so we too aspire to be nice". It's not descriptive, it's perscriptive.

Re: Streem – a new programming language from Matz

#182

Post by weavie »

danso wrote: post #78
Argorak wrote: post #72

If you ever meet Matz, talk to him about programming languages. While he gets some flak for all the problems of his original hobby project (Ruby), he obviously loves programming languages and gives things more thought then people give him credit for. I had the chance to talk to him while I was still a student and full of ideas how the language could be made "better" and he shot them all down. For good reasons, as I k…

Does he really get a "lot of flak" for Ruby? While I know not everyone loves Ruby, it seems crazy to me that people would denigrate Matz on a personal level...to me (admittedly, a novice in designing languages), Ruby always seemed well-thought out...that is, the trade-offs do not seem out of line given the philosophical benefits, and not everyone can make claim to turning a personal project into a worldwide language.…

Anyone who does anything significant will inevitable get flak from somewhere.

Re: Streem – a new programming language from Matz

#183

Post by xrstf »

apoorvai wrote: post #6

I'm not really a programming language expert, but it seems to me that having an implementation being the spec wouldn't be a good idea. If the Streem implementation has a bug, then the bug becomes the authoritative behavior. Any platform specific quirks would also make it difficult to have defined behavior.

Welcome to PHP. The Zend Engine 2 is basically the spec, even though Facebook has recently (couple of weeks ago) started writing a spec to make sure their HHVM is compatible.

Re: Streem – a new programming language from Matz

#184

Post by dwenzek »

ori_b wrote: post #52
c3RlcGhlbnI_ wrote: post #42

I am glad that someone is working on a new stream processing language, it is a very interesting paradigm. However I hope that they provide some very robust tools for controlling input splitting. As I have spent too much time fighting with awk and wishing it was more flexible(it is frustrating always having exactly two levels of splitting with only matchers on the first and only inverse splitting on the second). As is…

Sounds like a job for structural regex: http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/structural_regexps/se.pdf

Yes, this paper is interesting.

It shows well how a slight shift on the problem expression can lead to a more powerful, simpler to use and general solution. In this case, the shift is to design stream processors (like `sed` and `awk`) to work on streams of text chunks defined by regular expressions rather on streams of lines matching regular expressions.

Regarding this concern, it's hard to say what is the plan of Matz for Streem with a single code example. But the fact, that this sample code processes a stream of integers, lets hope a tool with more flexibility than `sed` or `awk` to specify what is processed along the streams.

Re: Streem – a new programming language from Matz

#185

Post by Argorak »

wycats wrote: post #145
Argorak wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See the amount of people complaining about the missing spec for Ruby in this thread, which is his doing. At some point ~50% of the comments here were downvoted. I should clarify that I meant Ruby the implementation, not Ruby the language. Edit: I changed the word to "some", maybe that was a bit of a hyperbole. I see quite some unreflected bashing though.

Matz worked on a spec for the Ruby language, which is now an ISO standard: http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_...

Thanks, Yehuda. I am very much aware of that, but that fact doesn't change people from complaining.

You of all people should be aware that the spec is extracted from the implementation far after the language got popular, which is _exactly_ what people are complaining about.

Re: Streem – a new programming language from Matz

#186

Post by gadders »

c3RlcGhlbnI_ wrote: post #108
mackwic wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awesome ! Let's call it sed ! Reference: https://www.gnu.org/software/sed/manual/sed.html#Examples Sorry, I couldn't miss that one. :) Really, check the example. Sed is most powerful tool and can do astonishing work.

That manual is possibly the single most useful technical document that I have ever read. It has enabled me to write extremely powerful programs that no one I know can understand. It would however be nice to have a tool with similar power but simpler, more comprehensible syntax. One of the other commenters linked to an interesting document on sam, which has a better control flow but equally arcane syntax.

> It has enabled me to write extremely powerful programs that no one I know can understand.

A job for life! :-)

Re: Streem – a new programming language from Matz

#189

Post by jkgeyti »

bglazer wrote: post #141
c3RlcGhlbnI_ wrote: post #42

I am glad that someone is working on a new stream processing language, it is a very interesting paradigm. However I hope that they provide some very robust tools for controlling input splitting. As I have spent too much time fighting with awk and wishing it was more flexible(it is frustrating always having exactly two levels of splitting with only matchers on the first and only inverse splitting on the second). As is…

I'd like to recommend a python command line utility called pyp. It allows you to do python string manipulation on text streams using the standard pipe operator. https://code.google.com/p/pyp/

I found it cumbersome to do branching in most of the existing python stream tools. I made an alternative, that allows you to use curly brackets for indentation:

https://github.com/ircflagship2/pype

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