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Who's Using Ada? Real-World Projects Powered by the Ada Programming Language

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Re: Who's Using Ada? Real-World Projects Powered by the Ada Programming Language

#31

Post by gamegoblin »

ScottBurson wrote: post #24
gamegoblin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haskell is similar in this sense. And Golang (IIRC, only coded a few hundred lines in it two years ago). Example from a Haskell REPL, where Haskell won't even upcast an Int (machine int) to an Integer (unbounded int, python style): Prelude> let a = 1 :: Int Prelude> let b = 2 :: Integer Prelude> a+b :4:3: Couldn't match expected type `Int' with actual type `Integer' In the second argument of `(+)', namely `b' In the…

> unbounded int, python style Arrrgh!! You mean "Lisp style". Lisp has had arbitrary-precision integers ("bignums") since 1971 -- long before Python was invented.

Whenever I talk about Haskell I always try to make my comparisons to Java, C, or Python for maximum relatability.

I think saying "unbounded int" is enough, but then people might say "what exactly do you mean by unbounded?" so I say it's about the same as a python int. Haskell itself predates python.

And IBM vacuum tube machines had arbitrary precision integers in the mid 50s, and transistor based ones in the 60s ;)

Re: Who's Using Ada? Real-World Projects Powered by the Ada Programming Language

#33

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

cjensen wrote: post #22
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #15

The attribute mechanism is something a lot of languages would benefit from. Need to know the maximum value of an integer? Just ask the integer type to tell you. No going to a library to look up inscrutable constants.

C++: numeric_limits ::max ()

Ada attribute provide a lot more meta information about types and objects than just integer limits.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Ada_Programming/Attributes

Some of these would be methods in modern OO languages but many are unique to Ada.

Re: Who's Using Ada? Real-World Projects Powered by the Ada Programming Language

#34

Post by pjmlp »

nabla9 wrote: post #9
thejteam wrote: post #7

Although I've never coded in Ada I have had to read existing code to figure out what it was doing. Ada struck me as a language that would be a pain to write in(at least it would take a long time) but it was a pleasure to read. Even without an intimate knowledge of the language (I was a C++ guy) I was able to figure it out.

Alternative to Ada is often writing Ada in some other language more painfully :( I think it's sad that companies move to restricted C/C++ subset just because there are more people with C/C++ in their resume. 1. The JSF air vehicle C++ coding standards http://www.stroustrup.com/JSF-AV-rules.pdf 2. MISRA-C:2004 Guidelines for the use of the C language in critical systems http://caxapa.ru/thumbs/468328/misra-c-2004.pdf…

I have been visiting FOSDEM every few years and Ada presence in Europe has been slowly rising.

Just check the archives.

Most likely because for writing fail safe software, it is better to use a language with built in support for safety, than using crutches.

Re: Who's Using Ada? Real-World Projects Powered by the Ada Programming Language

#35

Post by tormeh »

bglazer wrote: post #25

This is certainly an impressive list of projects. Ada seems to be favored for critical software that can't ever fail. I've been considering how to achieve this type of software reliability for more "enterprisey" applications. Formally verifiable languages are certainly intriguing, but would be a hard sell for the managers at the Fortune 100 company where I work. Reading the wikipedia page for Ada didn't really give m…

Like C, it's been around forever and is considered battle-proven and figured-out. Unlike C it has real-time features and a type system that isn't trying to kill you.

Also the syntax is designed to be as easy to understand as possible, typing out every word and using no three-letter abbreviations.

It's in general a language that was way ahead of its time, but survived because the DoD mandated it. Its main competitor is C, but that's mostly because the amount of engineers who know Ada out of school is really low, which is a shame, I think. Rust is way too new and Haskell has GC.

Re: Who's Using Ada? Real-World Projects Powered by the Ada Programming Language

#36

Post by danieltillett »

nabla9 wrote: post #9
thejteam wrote: post #7

Although I've never coded in Ada I have had to read existing code to figure out what it was doing. Ada struck me as a language that would be a pain to write in(at least it would take a long time) but it was a pleasure to read. Even without an intimate knowledge of the language (I was a C++ guy) I was able to figure it out.

Alternative to Ada is often writing Ada in some other language more painfully :( I think it's sad that companies move to restricted C/C++ subset just because there are more people with C/C++ in their resume. 1. The JSF air vehicle C++ coding standards http://www.stroustrup.com/JSF-AV-rules.pdf 2. MISRA-C:2004 Guidelines for the use of the C language in critical systems http://caxapa.ru/thumbs/468328/misra-c-2004.pdf…

Thanks for the links - I have been wanting to read the mistake guidelines for sometime.

Re: Who's Using Ada? Real-World Projects Powered by the Ada Programming Language

#37

Post by tormeh »

pjmlp wrote: post #34
nabla9 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternative to Ada is often writing Ada in some other language more painfully :( I think it's sad that companies move to restricted C/C++ subset just because there are more people with C/C++ in their resume. 1. The JSF air vehicle C++ coding standards http://www.stroustrup.com/JSF-AV-rules.pdf 2. MISRA-C:2004 Guidelines for the use of the C language in critical systems http://caxapa.ru/thumbs/468328/misra-c-2004.pdf…

I have been visiting FOSDEM every few years and Ada presence in Europe has been slowly rising. Just check the archives. Most likely because for writing fail safe software, it is better to use a language with built in support for safety, than using crutches.

That's really encouraging! The C++/Java/Python monoculture coming out of schools suck.

Re: Who's Using Ada? Real-World Projects Powered by the Ada Programming Language

#38

Post by tormeh »

nraynaud wrote: post #18
thejteam wrote: post #7

Although I've never coded in Ada I have had to read existing code to figure out what it was doing. Ada struck me as a language that would be a pain to write in(at least it would take a long time) but it was a pleasure to read. Even without an intimate knowledge of the language (I was a C++ guy) I was able to figure it out.

it's verbose, but I guess a good IDE would write a lot for you anyways. When it's statically typed the IDE can help you a lot. It touches the difference between what you want to read and what you want to write in software, but nowadays, stuff doesn't have to be written, it can be conveyed with color, font, underline etc. But the real shocker is that you can't really write serious Ada for free, gnat is a pain, the fre…

Yeah, the companies writing Ada code don't care about open source and amateurs don't write Ada code so nothing gets done.

Re: Who's Using Ada? Real-World Projects Powered by the Ada Programming Language

#39

Post by tormeh »

dugmartin wrote: post #30

We used Ada in my software engineering class in 1992 to try to build a system to do route finding on a map and then generate directions. Each build took 40 to 50 minutes on a pretty nice PC at the time. I don't miss those days.

Wrong tool for the job. I would do that in Python.

Re: Who's Using Ada? Real-World Projects Powered by the Ada Programming Language

#40

Post by iak8god »

tormeh wrote: post #39
dugmartin wrote: post #30

We used Ada in my software engineering class in 1992 to try to build a system to do route finding on a map and then generate directions. Each build took 40 to 50 minutes on a pretty nice PC at the time. I don't miss those days.

Wrong tool for the job. I would do that in Python.

Not in 1992 you wouldn't.

This is a strange thing to say without explaining anyway. Would you care to expand on your point? I would expect Ada to run orders of magnitude faster than Python for a task like this.

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