Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?' • Hacker News Board

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#151

Post by ep103 » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 2:38 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #28

jfaucett wrote: post #24

I think the problem is that no one realizes the internet we grew up with and loved is changing fundamentally and we can't be passivist users of the medium anymore. If you are you're basically saying you're okay with a future where governments regulate which services you can use and ISPs control how fast you can download bits based on whether you're using their sponsored services or not. Its bullshit but its what's ha…

It's not a hardware problem, it's a convenience problem. People like that there's somebody else worrying about this. They are willing to do almost anything it takes so they don't have to worry about issues of basic infrastructure. We already do this with water, electricity, and other infrastructure. Anything it takes as long as I can get water/power/trash-taken-out just by flipping a switch and paying a bill. We, as…

I don't think we as a society don't want to think about this. I think that society at large just assumes that the internet IS regulated as a utility. Up until now, the major ISPs haven't taken an active role in speeding up, shaping or censoring content that non-geeks even really know about.

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#152

Post by canvia » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 2:38 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #66

icantthinkofone wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theft is theft, not free speech.

Theft is a concept that originates from our definition of "property". I oppose the legal definition that copyright == property; I agree that a reasonably short copyright term can encourage the creation of art, but what we have now is outrageous and I don't think the trade-off makes sense for the public.

The copyright system worked fine until it was corrupted by corporate bribery of government officials: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#153

Post by ep103 » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 2:38 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #28

jfaucett wrote: post #24

I think the problem is that no one realizes the internet we grew up with and loved is changing fundamentally and we can't be passivist users of the medium anymore. If you are you're basically saying you're okay with a future where governments regulate which services you can use and ISPs control how fast you can download bits based on whether you're using their sponsored services or not. Its bullshit but its what's ha…

It's not a hardware problem, it's a convenience problem. People like that there's somebody else worrying about this. They are willing to do almost anything it takes so they don't have to worry about issues of basic infrastructure. We already do this with water, electricity, and other infrastructure. Anything it takes as long as I can get water/power/trash-taken-out just by flipping a switch and paying a bill. We, as…

I don't think we as a society don't want to think about this. I think that society at large just assumes that the internet IS regulated as a utility. Up until now, the major ISPs haven't taken an active role in speeding up, shaping or censoring content that non-geeks even really know about. When you explain things like the current FCC debacle, when they finally understand the context, they get enraged because its so obviously different and worse than how they thought the system worked.

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#154

Post by sigzero » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 2:42 PM UTC

jimktrains2 wrote: post #140

gedrap wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> sharing of information But what TPB mainly distributed, was not information, it was products. And they are not essential products, you can live just fine without TV series or movies. People don't die because they can't play their favourite video game. It's like saying designer clothes should be free. Information should be shared without profit, yeah, that's what wikipedia is doing fine. But video games are not in…

> But what TPB mainly distributed, was not information, it was products. It did no such thing. It provided a searchable list of user-generated content. It was no different than hacker news or reddit. It was used in a fashion that facilitated "crimes", but so are computers, Internet, and cash in general.

No, it was a lot different from Reddit or HN. Please stop trying to support the "pirating is okay". It's not. It's theft. You do not need or have to see those shows. You want to watch them and you fulfill that want by pirating. That pirating may cause purchases later is a horrible argument for theft.

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#155

Post by NotOscarWilde » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 2:42 PM UTC

pothibo wrote: post #148

k-mcgrady wrote: post #2

He went to jail for creating a website that enabled people to download music and movies without paying for them. Jail is a harsh punishment IMO for that. ACTA/SOPA etc. are all terrible things that we can't allow and we can't allow the internet to become more centralised/controlled by government. But that's not why he went to jail. Enabling illegal downloads of content has little to do with those causes.

What a narrow view you have. Torrent makes it accessible to see things you have paid for but didn't have time/forgot to watch (TV series). They also make it accessible to get stuff you couldn't (Not because it's available in USA that it is in every country). That's crazy that someone went to jail for running TPB when the MPAA and RIAA are big monopolies that control how much we should spend on stuff. It's not a free…

>Netflix exists because of illegal sharing. And even though Netflix is pretty awesome, look at what all the established companies are doing to try to screw with Netflix.

And let us not forget that Netflix is still unavailable in many countries (pick any Eastern European Country, EU countries included). And where it is available, many titles from the US Netflix are not available. Torrents (and illegal downloads in general) are a strong incentive for copyright owners to improve their game. Otherwise it'd be a stagnant monopoly.

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#156

Post by drzaiusapelord » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 2:43 PM UTC

I'm sorry, but downloading entertainment is not a human right. He didn't exactly feed starving people by breaking the law. He put up a torrent aggregator to, mostly, Hollywood movies and shoved aggressive and high-revenue porn and malware ads into every nook and cranny of that site.

HN and those passionate about internet freedoms deserve better heroes than guys like Sunde, Dotcom, and Ulbricht. These guys very much enriched themselves via what was essentially a web based business and any "freedom fighter" argument is pretty disingenuous at this point.

Personally, I see malware coming from ad networks and other dirty tricks TPB did as a bigger issue than being able to watch Spiderman 3 without paying. Honestly, now he's painting himself as a some anti-spying hero when his site was the #1 vector of aggressive spy and malware onto people's computers? I mean, it fucking took over the search box when you clicked on it and launched a download to suspicious-toolbar.exe immediately. What link actually took you to the torrent? Not the dozen of so "DOWNLOAD NOW" buttons Sunde happily populated his site with. We need less of that stuff, please.

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#157

Post by rjaco31 » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 2:43 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #120

3984239849823 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically watching movies form internet is perfectly legal in most countries. Some distributor made movie accessible under some sort of license. It is not user obligation (or duty) to investigate wherever all legalities are sorted between producer and distributor. Plus some countries made it legal to make copy for personal use... and so on.

I'm not sure if your first sentence is very accurate. Where did you get that information?

Well most of the people prosecuted for piracy, maybe even all of them, were because of uploading/copyright infringement, it's usually a very gray area of just downloading/watching a stream, and I've never seen a case of it being illegal per se.

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#158

Post by waterlesscloud » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 2:44 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #142

waterlesscloud wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you support spreading the hacked nude photos of celebs? Once someone obtains a copy they should be free to share? And "Nobody says copyright holders should be forced to publish their works." should be a warning flag to you. Once you get to a position that twisty, you should think to yourself there's probably something wrong with it.

> And "Nobody says copyright holders should be forced to publish their works." should be a warning flag to you. Once you get to a position that twisty, you should think to yourself there's probably something wrong with it. Strange, because that's exactly how the patent/business secrets laws work; a company is free to decide what they want to do with their new invention; they can keep it secret and risk someone else r…

What's being said here is that if you want to keep the rights to something, you must keep it to yourself. If you publish it, you must lose control.

That's exactly the opposite of what patents say.

Patents say if you want to publish something, you can still have protection for it.

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#159

Post by tomp » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 2:46 PM UTC

gedrap wrote: post #99

tomp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Manning went to jail for revealing government secrets about government crimes. And Snowden cannot return home because he revealed that people are being spied on. It's very easy to say, "he went to jail because what he did was illegal". It's harder to say "he went to jail despite what he did was right". I support TPB's cause. I believe that non-profit sharing of information should be free.

>>> sharing of information But what TPB mainly distributed, was not information, it was products. And they are not essential products, you can live just fine without TV series or movies. People don't die because they can't play their favourite video game. It's like saying designer clothes should be free. Information should be shared without profit, yeah, that's what wikipedia is doing fine. But video games are not in…

Your argument is implicitly based on an assumption that piracy/sharing reduces income/profits. I'm not so sure this assumption is correct; at least it hasn't been demonstrated as true (AFAIK). A strong argument speaking against it is the fact that there are many examples that say the contrary; Avatar is one of the most pirated movies and also one of the most successful ones, and earned a huge amount of money just on cinema tickets. You have e.g. Zynga, King and Rovio who have earned lots of money on free games.

I used to pirate stuff much more when I was younger (a poor student). Now, I often pay for music that I really like, to support the artists! Other music I just watch on YouTube. If I was sure that Netflix would provide a better service than downloading (i.e. good quality, little wait time, superb selection, offline viewing, no geo-restrictions), I would subscribe.

Re: Peter Sunde: 'I went to jail for my cause. What did you do?'

#160

Post by kristiandupont » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 2:46 PM UTC

ultramancool wrote: post #127

hackerboos wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're really stretching it there. Freedom of speech is the political right to communicate one's opinions and ideas using one's body and property to anyone who is willing to receive them. Not sharing hashcodes to copyrighted works over the internet.

> Freedom of speech is the political right to communicate one's opinions and ideas using one's body and property to anyone who is willing to receive them. Why do people confuse the concept of free speech with some specific political or legal idea? There are many other ways in which a reduction of free speech is extremely harmful. Look at the great firewall of China blocking democratic content, look at reviews being c…

Using Chinese censorship to argue about pirated content is, imo, a variation of the slippery slope fallacy.

If someone obtained your family's credit card numbers and PINs, you would consider them to be in their good right to distribute them freely? They're just numbers, after all.