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Google News to shut down in Spain

googlepolicyeurope.blogspot.com

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Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#101

Post by KobaQ »

hueving wrote: post #78
KobaQ wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is remarkable, as we could conclude that Google News can't or don't want to create content on their own, but only copy from other sources.

It's remarkable that someone today tries to insult Google by claiming they aren't creating content. EVERYONE knows this. People use Google because they are great at organization information, not making it.

There's a difference between Google Search and Google News.

It is already an achievement to write the headlines of the news and to rank the importance of a piece of news. I consider this and all the editorial also as content.

With Google Search, Google does the ranking etc. and provides a substantial own service on demand to a specific search. People always go to the original site if it fits their search request. All good here. But with Google News they just copy the headlines and parts of the articles. They present it, kind of republish it in opposite to creating a search service.

Personally, I'm a bit pissed by the Google, Microsoft, Facebook, etc. because of their sneaky busines concepts. So my post is hostile (which it shouldn't be, but happens ...), but not insulting towards Google.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#102

Post by sidharth_k »

sounds wrote: post #41
dyadic wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two sides to the scourge. WRT the BBC, they produce quality content, partly funded by us Brits and partly funded by exporting the content to other countries. With the internet they have limited choices: * Keep things off the internet and disappoint everyone * Put things on the global internet and lose export value * Put things on the internet but geolocate to the UK and retain export value Clearly for them,…

So your dilemma could be a false dichotomy if (and I realize it's a big if): * BBC puts things on the global internet * Global users can discover it more readily * BBC becomes well-known as a provider of quality content * Demand for BBC content increases because of the online content already available * BBC can charge more for future content (which it can export first to high-profit-margin channels, then publish onli…

This is a business decision. BBC executives have already (probably) thought about whether they want to charge now or make it free now (and charge later). Its the age old question every company and startup faces -- shall I increase my reputation now and charge later or should I charge now. As its been already pointed out, BBC already has a great reputation.

Different business models result in different pricing decisions. Maybe BBC has determined that keeping things free globally is just not smart business sense for it because of real revenue foregone.

I believe that BBC sells a lot of its programs to channels around the world. I also believe it also markets various DVDs of its programs. BBC entertainment is also available as a paid channel in many countries. If it made these programs free on the web globally that business might be in doubt.

BBC is currently in a binary model which is to be free in UK and then sell its programs globally. The unintended consequence of that it ends up denying global internet users its programs.

What would be best, I believe, would be to provide all choices. For people who are willing to pay outside the UK -- bring them into a subscriber model of some sort. This way BBC can continue selling its programs to companies/channels/customers around the world and let internet users watch BBC programs, for a small cost.

Who knows? BBC might actually be working on subscriber pays model on the internet. Here other considerations come into play: bureaucratic sloth in an organization as big as the BBC and the time it takes to role out a subscription oriented video website.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#103

Post by ckarmann »

sounds wrote: post #43
Throwaway9111 wrote: post #40

Does still anyone believe that 9/11 was a terrorist attack. A lot of Europeans think it was the US government itself.

When you say "A lot of Europeans," can you cite a source, like a poll or even an internet forum, where like-minded Europeans express this view? I'm not challenging your assertion, I'd just like to see it in action and measure it for myself. Edit: in case you edit or delete your post, this is what I'm asking about: Does still anyone believe that 9/11 was a terrorist attack. A lot of Europeans think it was the US gover…

There is a Wikipedia article for everything: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_conspi... And specifically this international WorldPublicOpinion.org poll whose results are compiled there: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/911worldo...

More or less, the opinion that the US government was behind the attack is clearly in the minority in all polled European countries.

Interesting to see the differences between countries here. That said,one has to be careful with polls in different countries: people's answers are very sensitive to question wording, and I imagine translations can introduce biases easily.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#104

Post by rdlecler1 »

rgbrenner wrote: post #44
rsync wrote: post #13

Things are going very badly for a global internet if we are discussing a web site "shutting down in spain". Of course we all know what that means and it seems very sensible in 2014, but remember - if someone had told you in 1998 that a certain website would not be operating in country X, you would have laughed and explained to them (like a child) that the Internet was a single global network and that if one had Inter…

Just to be clear, Google is subject to this law because Google operates and has offices in Spain. It seems reasonable that Google should comply with the laws of where they do business.

And they are. But will this have the effects the legislators tried to impose. This doesn't get google, it hurts Spain.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#105

Post by KobaQ »

batiudrami wrote: post #75
KobaQ wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is remarkable, as we could conclude that Google News can't or don't want to create content on their own, but only copy from other sources.

Of course they don't want to create their own content. They're a search company! Their entire business is aggregating and linking to other sources.

I think in this case it's a blurred line. In the case of Youtube even more. True, they don't want to create their own content, but when they republish it and making money by doing so, we're in the middle of the copyright discussion. The question to answer in each of Googles (or others) businesses is, when is Google presenting it's own work (search results, etc.) or the work of others.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#106

Post by mimighost »

raldi wrote: post #82
rsync wrote: post #13

Things are going very badly for a global internet if we are discussing a web site "shutting down in spain". Of course we all know what that means and it seems very sensible in 2014, but remember - if someone had told you in 1998 that a certain website would not be operating in country X, you would have laughed and explained to them (like a child) that the Internet was a single global network and that if one had Inter…

You've misinterpreted the story as, "Google News won't be accessible to browsers in Spain." The actual story is, "The 'Spain' version of Google News won't be accessible to anyone."

And I think Google won't be the only one to retreat here. Facebook have a lot of new aggregation related features, I don't think they will choose to comply. Twitter will also be subjected to this, it is interesting to see now a simple retweet might be in fringe of breaking the law.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#107

Post by rgbrenner »

diminoten wrote: post #100
raldi wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've misinterpreted the story as, "Google News won't be accessible to browsers in Spain." The actual story is, "The 'Spain' version of Google News won't be accessible to anyone."

What if I post a Spanish story to HN (or Reddit) and use the title of the article as the submission title? Will the company hosting the site have to pay up?

NO, because neither Reddit nor HN operate in Spain, and therefore are not subject to Spannish law.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#108

Post by rancur »

wtbob wrote: post #80
rgbrenner wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, Google is subject to this law because Google operates and has offices in Spain. It seems reasonable that Google should comply with the laws of where they do business.

But the law itself does not seem reasonable. It's a violation of fair use. Lest we forget, Google News links to the articles themselves . It provides a service to news organisations, for—as far as I'm aware—free.

> It's a violation of fair use.

welcome to the EU.

just to warn you, you might find yourself laughing at their patent law, should you read it and applicable case laws

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#109

Post by dordoka »

magicalist wrote: post #4
jonathansizz wrote: post #2

A pertinent quote from the Guardian article on this story: Germany passed a similar law to Spain’s and Google removed newspapers from Google News in response but in October publishers reached an agreement with the company after traffic to their websites plummeted.

Seems like the difference is they can't come to an agreement with publishers this time: "This new legislation requires every Spanish publication to charge services like Google News for showing even the smallest snippet from their publications, whether they want to or not" (though of course they may be overstating the requirement)

It´s actually no overstatement. The law includes a clause specifically to avoid that, stating that paying the tax is an "inalienable right". Of course, as the law reads, it´s more an obligation that a right... As a spanish citizen, I´m equally ashamed and enraged of this old-fashioned, short-sighted and conservative law.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#110

Post by kalleboo »

KobaQ wrote: post #81
kalleboo wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google can't be allowed to copy the content or parts of it without permission of the creator Do you also believe Google should remove the excerpts from web sites on search result pages?

If it's the substantial part of the content, yes. But in the case of most of the web search results it is not, so no. However, you've asked the tricky question. Is it necessary to go to the website or to the original news article or not? That's just my moral based evaluation, I guess from the perspective of a lawyer it's seen differently, much more strictly.

It seems to me if a news article can be summed up in the one-sentence excerpt shown on Google News, I could just get that from Twitter and it has very little value...
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