Google News to shut down in Spain • Hacker News Board

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#51

Post by chetanahuja » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 4:10 AM UTC

sounds wrote: post #41

dyadic wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two sides to the scourge. WRT the BBC, they produce quality content, partly funded by us Brits and partly funded by exporting the content to other countries. With the internet they have limited choices: * Keep things off the internet and disappoint everyone * Put things on the global internet and lose export value * Put things on the internet but geolocate to the UK and retain export value Clearly for them,…

So your dilemma could be a false dichotomy if (and I realize it's a big if): * BBC puts things on the global internet * Global users can discover it more readily * BBC becomes well-known as a provider of quality content * Demand for BBC content increases because of the online content already available * BBC can charge more for future content (which it can export first to high-profit-margin channels, then publish onli…

And in any case, the public funding argument never hindered the excellent BBC worldwide radio service.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#52

Post by sparkzilla » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 4:11 AM UTC

gcb0 wrote: post #6

"we don't make money because we do not advertise on that site" is a huge fallacy. This sounds like a bluff because if that gets traction in the US then their search business will collapse. Imagine $0.01 for every search that shows a snipet of wikipedia to the wiki foundation?

Google already makes billions from Wikipedia. The problem with kicking money back is that nothing goes to the contributors, but to the useless Wikimedia Foundation.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#53

Post by KobaQ » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 4:18 AM UTC

jonathansizz wrote: post #2

A pertinent quote from the Guardian article on this story: Germany passed a similar law to Spain’s and Google removed newspapers from Google News in response but in October publishers reached an agreement with the company after traffic to their websites plummeted.

That's exactly how it has to be done. Google can't be allowed to copy the content or parts of it without permission of the creator. We shouldn't forget that they're making huge amounts of money by selling others work here. On the other hand Google claims to create "real value for these publications by driving people to their websites", which is often true in the short run. So the publisher can consider allowing copying parts of their articles. And Google could even consider charging them for this service.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#54

Post by pkaye » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 4:21 AM UTC

source99 wrote: post #17

pkaye wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Google News website doesn't show any banner ads.

But it does lead to sites that likely show ads from google. So technically news.google.com doesn't generate revenue but it does direct traffic to news.spain.commercial.site that is showing google ads along side news.

So you are saying that Google should be charging the sites money since it brings them ad traffic?

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#55

Post by youssifa » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 4:21 AM UTC

May not necessarily be a popular opinion on here, but I'll state it anyway:

Google may not directly profit from Google News, but they still manage to extract value from it. We exist in a top-heavy paradigm where giant servers profiteer off the work of everybody else, capturing a disproportionate percentage of the total value created.

It's unfortunate but not unexpected that Google's response is this snarky blog post. But I wish people wouldn't pretend this is somehow a giant government tipping the scales against "openness".

I see this more as an institution in charge of making sure our collective greed not getting the better of us trying to distribute wealth to those who create it proportionate to the value being created.

Is it a futile attempt, likely unaware of its own vision? Sure. I just wish Silicon Valley would get its head out of the sand and realize that the current paradigm isn't necessarily sustainable for anyone -- whether you're the one sitting atop Mt. Server enjoying crazy network effects or the person contributing value for peanuts (if you're lucky).

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#56

Post by prawn » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 4:22 AM UTC

jessriedel wrote: post #8

jonathansizz wrote: post #2

A pertinent quote from the Guardian article on this story: Germany passed a similar law to Spain’s and Google removed newspapers from Google News in response but in October publishers reached an agreement with the company after traffic to their websites plummeted.

Can someone comment on the goal behind designing the Spanish law this way? I speculate that they consider Google News to have monopolistic power, so that even if a fair market in snippets would set a finite price Google News would still use its clout to drive that price to zero by removing individual papers who tried to charge. A mandatory price would counter act this, similar to the way that government mandates to p…

I think the goal is to placate local, entrenched media.

Big news companies have complained for years about aggregation yet generally sulked when it's been removed (see Germany).

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#57

Post by ryanhuff » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 4:22 AM UTC

onetimeusename wrote: post #36

I am reading through the official law and essentially it is saying that the Spanish government finds this necessary to reinforce intellectual property protections, the ip here being the news/stories. The thing that isn't clear from the law was whether anyone had actually complained about what Google was doing or whether Google was actually found violating any ip laws in place(it doesn't seem so). The whole thing is 4…

Yes. Newspapers have lobbied the government to impose a "Google Tax".

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/jul/29/goog...

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#58

Post by uniformlyrandom » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 4:22 AM UTC

notjackma wrote: post #21

"As Google News itself makes no money (we do not show any advertising on the site) this new approach is simply not sustainable. " Rubbish! Google's Human Resources department doesn't make any money either, yet it exists, along with other loss-making divisions. Google as a whole is a very profitable company, and it could easily pay publishers over the long run. It just doesn't want to.

If you think that HR department is a charity, then you do not really understand what HR department does. Try running a company without one, and see how much money you lose.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#59

Post by throwawaytiger » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 4:22 AM UTC

rsync wrote: post #13

Things are going very badly for a global internet if we are discussing a web site "shutting down in spain". Of course we all know what that means and it seems very sensible in 2014, but remember - if someone had told you in 1998 that a certain website would not be operating in country X, you would have laughed and explained to them (like a child) that the Internet was a single global network and that if one had Inter…

I'm not sure how this totally nonsensical and erroneous reading of the post and subsequent comments have hijacked this thread, so at the risk of being patronizing allow me to explain this as simply as I can:

Spain passed a law that "forces" news publishers to collect a levy from online news aggregators.

Online news aggregators will be fined if they aren't paying the copyright levy (yeah it's that ridiculous).

Nor publishers or aggregators can optout of this arrangement.

Google is stopping the Google News aggregation in Spain. They are NOT GEO-BLOCKING IT.

Re: Google News to shut down in Spain

#60

Post by KobaQ » Thu, Dec 11, 2014, 4:25 AM UTC

deeviant wrote: post #37

jzwinck wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This case is less "Google News is not accessible to people in Spain" and more "Google News can no longer publish content originated in Spain." The effect may be similar because Spaniards often want Spanish content, but what's happening seems different to your characterization.

Well, they are not just removing all Spanish news sources from the Spanish Google news site, they are removing the Spanish Google news site , which seems pretty consistent with his characterization.

This is remarkable, as we could conclude that Google News can't or don't want to create content on their own, but only copy from other sources.