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Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

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Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#71

Post by tracker1 »

taf2 wrote: post #52

This is great. My experience with XML for UI went something like this. 1. build an XML language for abstracting C++ UI MCF or gtk 2. realizing the need for HTML content - embed mozilla/xulrunner 3. realzing xulrunner /mozilla already provide a cross platform toolkit use XUL to build the user interface with xpcomm wrappers 4. realize that HTML is better for user interface, and only write HTML/javascript with xpcomm wr…

You should look into atom-shell and node-webkit... both are nice options if you want a cross-platform UI app with html+css+js.

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#72

Post by Sophistifunk »

paulrouget wrote: post #9

I've built that. Just to be clear: this is a personal project, not a mozilla project (even though I'm a mozilla employee). Also - many people find it silly to use HTML instead of the operating system toolkit library. But it's not HTML or native. It can be both. In this case, the HTML code define the layout, and we can draw native widgets inside (look at the tag in HTML, it's a native widget). For example, if you run…

What's the license on this? I'd like to steal your tab bar for something I'm building :)

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#73

Post by k00pa »

valarauca1 wrote: post #53
paulrouget wrote: post #9

I've built that. Just to be clear: this is a personal project, not a mozilla project (even though I'm a mozilla employee). Also - many people find it silly to use HTML instead of the operating system toolkit library. But it's not HTML or native. It can be both. In this case, the HTML code define the layout, and we can draw native widgets inside (look at the tag in HTML, it's a native widget). For example, if you run…

As a guy who works with primarily back end server code. I hate UI stuff primarily because even creating small input UI windows requires jumping though hoops of fire it feels like with strange API calls, and documentation that says, "Just follow the example it'll all be fine in a couple minutes." But I'm 8 inheritance levels deep trying to figure out why my text box isn't rendering. I've often wondered why OS's just d…

> But with the advent of 8-16+ GB of ram in consumer computers can we really say 2-3GB for windows rendering is heavy?

This attitude is why we have phones with 1G of memory and 1Ghz+ CPU's lagging when just trying to read email.

Yes, there is more memory available than before, but that doesn't mean we should just waste it for useless stuff.

For example if we eat 2-3GB of memory on a system with 8GB of memory, thats over 25% of the usage. Then some applications that are actually used. (Let me use my own process mem counts here...) 1.3Gb for Firefox, 0.6Gb for Android emulator, 0.5Gb for Visual studio....

And there would have gone over half of the 8GB of ram!

I am sure my current memory usage would be half of what its now if developers would actually give some shit about memory usage... Not just allocate too much memory because "there is so much memory it doesn't matter"

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#74

Post by cpeterso »

alex_duf wrote: post #47
paulrouget wrote: post #9

I've built that. Just to be clear: this is a personal project, not a mozilla project (even though I'm a mozilla employee). Also - many people find it silly to use HTML instead of the operating system toolkit library. But it's not HTML or native. It can be both. In this case, the HTML code define the layout, and we can draw native widgets inside (look at the tag in HTML, it's a native widget). For example, if you run…

Between that, rust and servo, it seems we have a new experimental technology stack shaping for the future of firefox. It may or may not be used in the end, but I'm excited by the potential.

Mozilla is also experimenting with Boot2Servo, a possible future for Boot2Gecko (Firefox OS):

https://github.com/servo/servo/wiki/Workweek-boot-2-servo

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#75

Post by soapdog »

icefox wrote: post #2

The browser shipped with Blackberry 10 was written in HTML and was a real joy to develop. Edit: some more public details The default browser on the BlackBerry 10 platform was a completely new browser application. The chrome was written in HTML, CSS and JavaScript. Being able to develop the chrome on your desktop browser or being able to run inspector remotely and using your desktop was very handy. The core was a comm…

Congratulations on awesome tech. Can you confirm the browser still work like this or did they change it to a non-HTML version in recent revisions?

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#76

Post by talmand »

apaprocki wrote: post #44
paulrouget wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to use SVG. See issue #24. I just don't have the assets.

It might even make more sense to just use fonts for the icons and leave SVG out of it entirely. I'm referring to the OpenType COLR/CPAL tables Microsoft is pushing: http://opentype.info/blog/2013/07/03/color-emoji-in-windows-...

Personally, I'd prefer SVG over fonts unless they change how using font icons is done in HTML and CSS.

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#77

Post by adl »

taf2 wrote: post #52

This is great. My experience with XML for UI went something like this. 1. build an XML language for abstracting C++ UI MCF or gtk 2. realizing the need for HTML content - embed mozilla/xulrunner 3. realzing xulrunner /mozilla already provide a cross platform toolkit use XUL to build the user interface with xpcomm wrappers 4. realize that HTML is better for user interface, and only write HTML/javascript with xpcomm wr…

> from time to time check in on the state of desktop/app development and see if they've finally figured out html is better for interfaces than any interface builder

Is this for real? I can name numerous advantages of Web Apps have over desktop/native Apps, "Building better interfaces" is not one of them.

Trying to build a UI with CSS and DOM manipulation (not to mention hacks, Bootstrap, Dojo/JQueryUI, different rendering engines, etc) is an exercise in pain compared to basically _any_ modern UI toolkit. (From XAML to Qt, Android, hell even GTK.)

edit: minor correction, I meant to say " build a UI" not "build a native UI"

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#78

Post by fnump »

simonw wrote: post #50

Would it be possible to implement XUL using Web Components and port the existing XUL interface to HTML that way?

Possibly, yes. Though I would not recommend implementing it as is... XUL was never versioned as far back as when I used to work with it, which is about 5 years ago. It's messy. Not easy to use. Although still easier than the new flexbox standard that evolved from it.

Anyway I'd hope for something better than XUL/XBL. The potential was always there. Mozilla the platform! —

I massage HTML and CSS professionally since 1996, and I must say I'd prefer something like "XUL2" over my beloved web standards any day. I wouldn't mind if "XUL2" was in actuality created with web components. Though seriously, CSS and DOM (HTML/XML) were created to make you suffer. That's their true purpose.

There is no easy way out of this. And rewriting the web won't work either.

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#79

Post by slezakattack »

valarauca1 wrote: post #53
paulrouget wrote: post #9

I've built that. Just to be clear: this is a personal project, not a mozilla project (even though I'm a mozilla employee). Also - many people find it silly to use HTML instead of the operating system toolkit library. But it's not HTML or native. It can be both. In this case, the HTML code define the layout, and we can draw native widgets inside (look at the tag in HTML, it's a native widget). For example, if you run…

As a guy who works with primarily back end server code. I hate UI stuff primarily because even creating small input UI windows requires jumping though hoops of fire it feels like with strange API calls, and documentation that says, "Just follow the example it'll all be fine in a couple minutes." But I'm 8 inheritance levels deep trying to figure out why my text box isn't rendering. I've often wondered why OS's just d…

Windows Presentation Foundation does just this with the XAML markup language. It's almost like designing a web app. You can use this markup for designing windows phone apps. I'm sure Apple also has their own markup as well for developing desktop/mobile apps but I have no experience in this so I'm not completely sure.

Re: Firefox.html: Rebuilding Firefox UI in HTML

#80

Post by blt »

rancur wrote: post #62
jwcooper wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, it's likely much more expensive to code native apps than it is to just build an html/css/js app using chrome with a lot of the heavy lifting already done for you (at the expense of increased resource consumption). A lot of these apps wouldn't exist if they couldn't have been built quickly and cheaply.

well, we're hitting process node limits (5, maybe 4nm) in 10 years so I think we better stop it. http://www.chipworks.com/media/wpmu/uploads/blogs.dir/2/file... You see those little dots? Those are individual silicon atoms from one of a few fins in the gate on Intel's 22nm node. Also, I Am A C Programmer. I Think Everything Should Be Written In C. C Is Close To The Hardware And Is Faster And Use Less Resource Compare…

I'm with you. I'm a "mechanically sympathetic" anomaly amongst my age group and even many of my senior colleagues who came up in the 90s when Moore's Law == clock speed. My whining about cache thrashing and branch mispredictions might fall on deaf ears now, but I'll be ready to fix all the slow-ass code when people realize that silicon atoms aren't getting any smaller and heat isn't getting any less hot.
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