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Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

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Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#21

Post by microtonal »

javery wrote: post #5

We have an unlimited vacation policy at Adzerk and I try to lead by example by taking at least 2-3 weeks off a year (especially in the summer). We also try to encourage everyone to take at least one solid week off a year and it seems to work pretty well. I think that's the real issue with unlimited policy - if the leaders don't take vacation no one else thinks they can.

Two or even three weeks seems very unhealthy to me:

- You need a longer break to seriously disconnect: at least two weeks.

- Around Christmas/New Year you probably want to be around family and friends: one week.

- At least a week distributed over the year to do something fun with your kid, visit that distant friend, etc.

Maybe it's because I come from Western Europe, where getting 5 weeks (25-30 days) off in total is pretty normal. But I cannot imagine not breaking yourself at some point with only two weeks of vacation.

Also, as siblings say. This 'no upper limit' makes no sense. If you give e.g. 25 days people know that that's their right and are more likely to take it then 'it's unlimited, but all the good workers take only 2-3 weeks'.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#22

Post by healsdata »

butwhy wrote: post #12

Why do companies even try out these weird policies? They've gone from having unlimited days (then admitted it was a mistake for 2 whole years) and are now blindly trying out another unusual strategy. I don't see why they don't just offer a standard solution which seems to work for most companies, instead of trying to be extremely controlling of people.

I don't think the traditional model (in the US, at least) is an ideal solution. MasterCard recently aired a commercial taking advantage of the fact that Americans have so much unused, paid vacation time each year.

The only way for us to come up with a better solution is for people to test things out.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#23

Post by oakesm9 »

javery wrote: post #5

We have an unlimited vacation policy at Adzerk and I try to lead by example by taking at least 2-3 weeks off a year (especially in the summer). We also try to encourage everyone to take at least one solid week off a year and it seems to work pretty well. I think that's the real issue with unlimited policy - if the leaders don't take vacation no one else thinks they can.

Is 2-3 weeks off a normal amount of time in the US? I get 28 days off per year in the UK, which is around the standard amount.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#24

Post by yxhuvud »

javery wrote: post #5

We have an unlimited vacation policy at Adzerk and I try to lead by example by taking at least 2-3 weeks off a year (especially in the summer). We also try to encourage everyone to take at least one solid week off a year and it seems to work pretty well. I think that's the real issue with unlimited policy - if the leaders don't take vacation no one else thinks they can.

How is taking 2-3 weeks off leading by example? Compare with the situation here in Sweden: 5 weeks of vacation is mandated by law, and it is very common to have an extra week or two in addition to that.

Also, the employer is mandated to accept that the employee take four weeks of contiguous vacation during summer (these weeks are included in the above).

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#25

Post by butwhy »

izacus wrote: post #20
butwhy wrote: post #12

Why do companies even try out these weird policies? They've gone from having unlimited days (then admitted it was a mistake for 2 whole years) and are now blindly trying out another unusual strategy. I don't see why they don't just offer a standard solution which seems to work for most companies, instead of trying to be extremely controlling of people.

Uh, having 20-25 (almost mandatory) days of per year is implemented by law here in most countries of EU. How is that a "wierd" policy? (By "almost mandatory" I mean that at least here, you must use up your vacation days until end of next year.)

20 days is mandatory where I live and I don't need to take them all if I don't want to (they still accrue). I get along just fine.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#26

Post by wallflower »

cloverich wrote: post #14
tylermac1 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With these kinds of policies being more common in young companies, I highly doubt that paying back unused vacation can have any significant effect on normal operations. In the other case there's also generally limits on how much vacation time you can build up, generally taking a couple years of not taking vacation to max out.

IANA Financial person, but... it does go on the books as a debt. I'd be highly interested in someone in the know putting some numbers up, but at my office I know of many people who have several months of vacation saved up (because seemingly people tend to under-use their vacation time). If that company is looking to get bought out, it must be relevant to at least some extent.

At my previous company, they specifically created a policy of no more than five days of rollover vacation from year to year specifically because of an on-the-books obligation of a couple million dollars (500+ employees) due to accrued vacation. Later, they changed that policy to NO rollover without VP level approval (e.g. honeymoons). In states like California that have strong employee laws they had to force all California based employees to burn down their accrued vacation every three months. Quasi-ethical and possibly borderline legal but that is what you have to do when employees hoard vacation under the mattress.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#28

Post by hibbelig »

butwhy wrote: post #12

Why do companies even try out these weird policies? They've gone from having unlimited days (then admitted it was a mistake for 2 whole years) and are now blindly trying out another unusual strategy. I don't see why they don't just offer a standard solution which seems to work for most companies, instead of trying to be extremely controlling of people.

What is "extremely controlling of people" using their current approach? What is "extremely controlling of people" using their previous approach?

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#29

Post by stephen_g »

sportanova wrote: post #2

Of course the other reason for 'unlimited vacation' is so when an employee leaves, the company doesn't have to pay them for unused vacation days. Huge red flag when a company has 'unlimited vacation'

It's sad that works in the US.

Here in Australia you have to give a full time employee a minimum of four weeks (paid), which accrues if unused. So somebody at a company with unlimited vacation would be no worse off of they never took holidays than someone who worked at a company with the regular 4 weeks.

Re: Travis CI: From Open to Minimum Vacation Policy

#30

Post by Someone1234 »

I've said it before and I'll say it again, unlimited days off (or "open") and zero days off are identical.

If you have unlimited vacation people are inclined to take less and people respect the vacation you take less ("as you can always take more!").

Here's a study[0] (PDF) called "Overwhelmed America: Why Don’t We Use Our Earned Leave?" It is biased (travel association) but interesting nonetheless.

According to this study[1] you need at least ten consecutive days of leave to "de-stress" from work. Short vacations aren't as effective as long ones. In "europe" a two week vacation (10 work days) is common/standard. As opposed to American's "long weekends."

A lot of these "unlimited" places have a "as long as your work gets done" policy, meaning you can take tons of short days off or afternoons off, but almost no extended holidays (e.g. travel abroad, out of state, etc).

[0] http://traveleffect.com/sites/traveleffect.com/files/Overwhe...

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