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US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

intelligence.senate.gov

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Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#161

Post by dragonwriter »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #104
tdees40 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who has said sorry? Cheney? Bush? Rice? The people who put this system into place continue to defend it and have suffered no consequences.

Before you get on your Liberal high horse, you might want to check yourself. Extraordinary Rendition began under Clinton: https://www.aclu.org/national-security/fact-sheet-extraordin... Beginning in the early 1990s and continuing to this day, the Central Intelligence Agency, together with other U.S. government agencies, has utilized an intelligence-gathering program involving the transfer of foreign nationals suspect…

> Before you get on your Liberal high horse, you might want to check yourself. Extraordinary Rendition began under Clinton

This is not about extraordinary rendition -- which certainly is an extremely disturbing practice, and by all accounts seems to have included instances where prisoners were tortured by other countries with the knowledge and at least tacit consent of the US in violation of US obligations under international law.

This is about systematic torture directly executed by an agency of the United States government, under false pretenses, and while making damaging deceptions about the program to other entities within the US government.

There is certainly an extent to which it fits in with a common pattern with extraordinary rendition, but its not the same thing.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#162

Post by mikeash »

pkinsky wrote: post #135
rdtsc wrote: post #25

> Interrogation techniques such as slaps and "wallings" (slamming detainees against a wall) were used in combination, frequently concurrent with sleep deprivation and nudity. Records do not support CIA representations that the CIA initially used an "an open, non-threatening approach," or that interrogations began with the "least coercive technique possible" and escalated to more coercive techniques only as necessary.…

> Anyone suggesting debating if rape is acceptable should be slapped on the head and considered an idiot Meanwhile, jokes about prison rape are socially acceptable & the US government refuses to do much of anything to stop it.

Criminals are apparently considered unworthy of civil rights. Just witness how many people justify the recent high-profile police killings by pointing out that one victim had previously robbed a convenience store and another one was selling cigarettes on the black market. In many people's minds, "selling illegal cigarettes" equates to "OK to kill in the street." Given that, it's no wonder that prison conditions aren't scrutinized.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#163

Post by tormeh »

clamprecht wrote: post #112
rdtsc wrote: post #25

> Interrogation techniques such as slaps and "wallings" (slamming detainees against a wall) were used in combination, frequently concurrent with sleep deprivation and nudity. Records do not support CIA representations that the CIA initially used an "an open, non-threatening approach," or that interrogations began with the "least coercive technique possible" and escalated to more coercive techniques only as necessary.…

Someone should make a demonstration video out of this, showing the various techniques used. I think that would illustrate just how insane it is.

Zero Dark Thirty already has.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zllzOrTvXLc

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#164

Post by twoodfin »

szierk wrote: post #143

How can the average person combat this? Does anyone have recommendations for organizations to support? I'm honestly at a complete loss for where to start. edit: removed a comment on this article getting flagged.

Wonder who we have to thank for that.

As we're not supposed to comment as to why we flagged a particular article, it's probably not productive to complain about flagging in the comments.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#165

Post by dragonwriter »

tormeh wrote: post #147
at-fates-hands wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before you get on your Liberal high horse, you might want to check yourself. Extraordinary Rendition began under Clinton: https://www.aclu.org/national-security/fact-sheet-extraordin... Beginning in the early 1990s and continuing to this day, the Central Intelligence Agency, together with other U.S. government agencies, has utilized an intelligence-gathering program involving the transfer of foreign nationals suspect…

Yeah, but right wing media says it's right.

> Yeah, but right wing media says it's right.

Well, in the past they've said that. Mostly now, they seem to be more avoiding commenting on the substance at all, and just saying that its wrong to publish the report.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#166

Post by twoodfin »

ep103 wrote: post #94
debacle wrote: post #49

Fellow parents, how do you teach or plan to teach your kids about this? I was discussing this with my son last night, but I really couldn't explain to him the prejudice and fear that people use to justify these types of acts, or the "otherness" that the perpetrators try to construct around the victims in the media. It's just not something he's experienced yet. There's no way to put it into context.

That's because there wasn't any prejudice or fear that warranted this, ever. IIRC, in Dick Cheney's autobiography, he states that he was a driving force behind pushing the intelligence community to torture their detainees. And he states that he did so "because if we started torturing people, no one would call the republican party weak on terrorism." He didn't have to go that extra mile. That was it, that was the just…

And he states that he did so "because if we started torturing people, no one would call the republican party weak on terrorism." He didn't have to go that extra mile.

Those quotation marks really demand a citation.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#167

Post by anigbrowl »

cryoshon wrote: post #124

A few things: The Republicans have issued a rebuttal. I assume this means they support torture. I hope this dissuades some of their remaining voter base from continuing to support them. Clapper has issued a rebuttal, claiming that the report isn't neutral. I assume he also supports torture. Not sure that he has any credibility left after being caught on the record lying to congress, but whatever. The White House atte…

The White House attempted to keep this report from coming out.

That's inaccurate. Kerry asked for a delay in its release; as Secretary of State, responsible for US embassies around the world, it's his job to draw attention to the risk factors. All reports I've read prior to the release said that both the President and Vice President were strongly in favor of publication. Ultimately the choice to classify or declassify rests with the President.

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#168

Post by DanBC »

willscott wrote: post #61
rdtsc wrote: post #25

> Interrogation techniques such as slaps and "wallings" (slamming detainees against a wall) were used in combination, frequently concurrent with sleep deprivation and nudity. Records do not support CIA representations that the CIA initially used an "an open, non-threatening approach," or that interrogations began with the "least coercive technique possible" and escalated to more coercive techniques only as necessary.…

The saving grace is that we have a country that was able to admit that it did this. For me, that's hope that we're still in a position to learn from our wrongs, and that the checks-and-balances are still somewhat in-tact.

It took a long time for the torture to be officially recognised -- we've had a lot of denial until now.

And even now there will be people who say that this was too much, but a little bit of torture is necessary.

Just look at what people were saying a out water boarding - "it's not really torture".

How many detainees are still held without trial?

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#169

Post by mikeash »

leroy_masochist wrote: post #102
sliverstorm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of these things are clearly off the deep end. But some of them, especially threats, seem like pretty basic/standard interrogation... There are many techniques, but it seems like we have forgotten it is fundamentally manipulative and abusive. I mean, we are surprised to find that threats are used? What?

I wouldn't say that any of these techniques are "basic/standard", and I used to work in the field. You can get plenty of information out of someone without laying a finger on them. In my opinion the question is the extent to which it's OK to play with people's psychology through isolation and misinformation, while still giving them 3 hots and a cot. The important thing to note here is that you can still damage people…

"Then again, these guys did not get rolled up for signing too loud in church. They have valuable intel in their heads."

Why does terrorism frighten people so much that they're willing to throw away basic principles like "innocent until proven guilty"? Honest question. I see comment after comment after comment in this thread that indicates the commenters are unbelievably frightened of terrorism, to the extent that they're willing to sanction anything, even acts that they admit are otherwise reprehensible, to prevent it. Why are apparently intelligent people so frightened of it?

Re: US Senate Report on CIA Detention and Interrogation Program

#170

Post by gadders »

rdtsc wrote: post #25

> Interrogation techniques such as slaps and "wallings" (slamming detainees against a wall) were used in combination, frequently concurrent with sleep deprivation and nudity. Records do not support CIA representations that the CIA initially used an "an open, non-threatening approach," or that interrogations began with the "least coercive technique possible" and escalated to more coercive techniques only as necessary.…

> I have no words. This stuff would make Gestapo, KGB and Stasi proud.

Godwin's Law? As far as I know there were no mass machine-gunnings, people hanged with piano wire or actually any people tortured to death. A lot of the techniques listed are pretty much what the US (and UK) army use on their own troops as part of escape and evasion training.

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