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Plan 9 from Bell Labs

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Re: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

#81
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quite like sam, from what I've tried so far. I think it's an interesting take on ed (but I much prefer acme) I still have "learn basic ed (or sam)" as a far-away goal (always pushed down my todo list, since knowing the commands is not enough: using them is what gives power)

This is the best writeup I've seen so far on getting comfortable with ed: http://blog.sanctum.geek.nz/actually-using-ed/

Yes, that post is my source of ed-ness, practical knowledge. Very good, well-written. But ah, the time to apply everything and the will to force me to use it!

Re: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

#84
post #69

Can someone explain why Plan 9 matters? I mean this legitimately. How is this differentiated from yet another flavor of *nix? I'm sure it was hot shit back in the early 90s, but I don't see much of an appeal other than as a curiosity like OS/2.

Your comparison to OS/2 may be apt. The details are a bit murky for me, but as far as I can tell from Wikipedia[1], OS/2 3.0 was at some point simply renamed to Windows NT, which of course is the underlying technology for Windows as we know it today. That is; Plan 9 is a research project and it is relevant the way research is relevant: For the future. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2

That's not at all what happened. NT was a completely new OS foundation, unless you think Dave Cutler borrowed pieces of his own VMS work at Digital.

In some alternate Microsoft strategic universe it might have been released as "OS/2 3.0", but it has effectively no inheritance from the OS/2 1.x/2.x/3.x code base.

Re: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch the video on that homepage. It is fantastic. Clarke and Dawe still make videos like that.

Thankyou. Glad to see them getting some international recognition. Absolute geniuses. For anyone not familiar, they have been the stalwarts of Australian political satire for decades. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Clarke_(satirist) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Dawe http://mrjohnclarke.com/projects/clarke-dawe https://www.youtube.com/user/ClarkeAndDawe http://www.abc.net.au/news/programs/clarkeanddawe/ (may…

I still have the VHS collection of their series, The Games. This was a pre-Sydney 2000 Olympics comedy satire.

Classics include the 100 metres sprint track, which was "about" 100 metres long and someone asking how many "smacks" their website received.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Games_%28Australian_TV_seri...

Re: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I love wmii. It's the primary reason I resent OS X. Huh? What's the relationship?

Presumably it's a sort of sideways/backhanded almost-compliment to OS X: it works well enough comparatively that its plusses overwhelm its negatives for the commenter. But, they still wish it supported more flexibility; and the fact it doesn't (and yet its plusses nevertheless still compare favorably enough to its minuses that the commenter continues to use it) leads to a sort of feeling of dissatisfaction and resent…

Yes, exactly. I mostly love OS X in that it gives me nearly everything I love about Linux with almost none of the hassle. The window management story is terrible though. Wmii really clicked for me, and OS X really pales in comparison on that front.

Re: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

#87

Can someone explain why Plan 9 matters? I mean this legitimately. How is this differentiated from yet another flavor of *nix? I'm sure it was hot shit back in the early 90s, but I don't see much of an appeal other than as a curiosity like OS/2.

What I find most amazing is how the kernel is more like a file system multiplexer. Its job is to present a file system to each process built from mounting virtual file systems from all sorts of programs and remote machines. If I want to access files from a remote machine — mount its file system. Want to play my music from my laptop using the speakers connected to my stationary computer — mount its sound card into my…

> What I find most amazing is how the kernel is more like a file system multiplexer. Its job is to present a file system to each process built from mounting virtual file systems from all sorts of programs and remote machines.

Wow, that sounds really powerful. I've just read a bit about inter-process communication and sharing in Linux, and that seems like much more of a hassle than this.

> Even the editor acme has its own file system, which makes writing a script doing something fancy in my editor really easy. The file system gives easy access (read/write) to anything from the currently selected text in each window, to the "menu" at the top (called the tag). And if I write a script, it is executed anywhere in acme by middle clicking its name.

That sounds like it might be the answer (an answer) to something I've been wondering about: how to let another process - outside the editor - have access to the contents of the editor. Like for example synchronizing the editing/viewing of a file, instead of the outside process only using the file stored on the disk, and reloading whenever the editor saves the file. Could one use the file system of Acme to have another process view for example the file that it is being used to edit, in real time? I'm thinking that something like that might be useful for collaborative editing (at the least, letting one person edit the file while the other person watches the editing, maybe in the same kind of editor but hopefully through whichever editor or program that she wishes to use).

Re: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

#89
post #4

As an interface designer Plan9 have always fascinated me yet I found it incredible hard to find many other designers who were into it's concepts. I always loved the "everything is an object" approach and in a better world this not NeXT or Windows would be our underlying principle.

You may be interested in wmii [1], a tiling WM which is inspired by Plan 9 and uses 9P. 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wmii

Interestingly, i3wm is designed as a successor to wmii and explicitly decided to avoid the Plan 9 aspect. [1]

Does someone have examples of cool things you can do in wmii thanks to this?

[1] Google Tech Talk about i3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnYN2CTb1hM (this question at 15:30)

Re: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

#90
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I find most amazing is how the kernel is more like a file system multiplexer. Its job is to present a file system to each process built from mounting virtual file systems from all sorts of programs and remote machines. If I want to access files from a remote machine — mount its file system. Want to play my music from my laptop using the speakers connected to my stationary computer — mount its sound card into my…

> What I find most amazing is how the kernel is more like a file system multiplexer. Its job is to present a file system to each process built from mounting virtual file systems from all sorts of programs and remote machines. Wow, that sounds really powerful. I've just read a bit about inter-process communication and sharing in Linux, and that seems like much more of a hassle than this. > Even the editor acme has its…

Yes. It sounds very much like you want to checkout Acme (and Plan 9). You can test Acme on other operating systems to get an idea. On Linux (or Mac I think), you can even mount the file system using fuse, or access it using a special program called 9p.

Here is a video of using Acme, and a port of Plan 9 userspace tools to other systems:

http://research.swtch.com/acme

http://swtch.com/plan9port

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