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Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Funding

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Re: Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Funding

#41

Post by kozyraki »

kelseyhightower wrote: post #35
Zariel wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it running ontop of the Mesos kernel, which has been around for longer than Kubernetes?

That was my first question as well, but there must be a reason why Kubernetes was brought in.

My view on this the following: Mesos is similar to the kernel of a conventional operating system (e.g. Linux). It provides very basic services (scheduling, interrupts, device management, etc) and a syscall API. But nobody wants to program to this API. Hence you need libc or other similar libraries to provide a higher level API that programmers use to interact with the kernel. Kubernetes, Marathon, Aurora, etc are such libraries, each optimizing for a different class of applications and providing different functionality. The two (the kernel and the libraries) need each other.

Re: Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Funding

#42

Post by [deleted] »

presspot wrote: post #11
[deleted] wrote: post #8

[deleted]

Mesosphere's stack is in full production at major companies, including one of the largest financial services companies and one of the largest consumer electronics companies. General availability is next year, but paying customers are using it in production today--at very large scale.

[deleted]

Re: Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Funding

#43

Post by boulos »

kozyraki wrote: post #41
kelseyhightower wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was my first question as well, but there must be a reason why Kubernetes was brought in.

My view on this the following: Mesos is similar to the kernel of a conventional operating system (e.g. Linux). It provides very basic services (scheduling, interrupts, device management, etc) and a syscall API. But nobody wants to program to this API. Hence you need libc or other similar libraries to provide a higher level API that programmers use to interact with the kernel. Kubernetes, Marathon, Aurora, etc are suc…

I see what you're saying Christos, but I think I'd prefer "runtime" over library (library sounds like it's just a little convenience).

Re: Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Funding

#44

Post by andyidsinga »

fsaintjacques wrote: post #40
kelseyhightower wrote: post #26

Disclosure: CoreOS employee; Kubernetes contributor. After reading the title I was a bit tempted to call BS since I think Kubernetes should have the rights to "The first Datacenter OS" tagline[1]. However, after reading up on the project details at https://mesosphere.com/learn I can see how Mesosphere came to the conclusion of being a DCOS, if not necessarily the first. Mesosphere goes a bit further than Kubernetes a…

I didn't see any reference to storage solution, am I misreading?

I was just thinking the same thing ...how are block and object storage supported under HDFS etc.

Re: Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Funding

#45

Post by larryweya »

presspot wrote: post #13
larryweya wrote: post #9

I'm a recent mesos convert but I think "first" is a tad inaccurate if you consider Joyent's SmartOS and it's recently open sourced Smart Data Center.

There are a lot of components to an operating system. It's not just the technology components, it's the product components and the business components. E.g., Does it have an API? Does it have an SDK? Does it have a user interface? Does it have an init system, a chron, a storage system, service discovery? Does it have an ecosystem of third party developers? I posit that the OS Checklist is fairly long and that no of t…

If you were to look at SmartOS and Smart Data Center, you'd realize that it does have ALL of those components. The place I feel SDC and SmartOS fall short (of DCOS) is in application deployment/orchestration which I think is huge for devs who've had to manage VMs in the cloud.

Another win for DCOS is that it can run anywhere while SmartOS only runs on baremetal. SmartOS does come with some nice goodies like the Manta object storage platform and Manatee, a Postgres replication and failover platform. Application orchestration would make it a contender IMHO.

Re: Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Funding

#46

Post by 23david »

KaiserPro wrote: post #34
KaiserPro wrote: post #32

Older person here. Whats nice is that people are thinking about supercomputers again, even if they insist on calling them "the cloud". First things first, look up beowulf ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beowulf_cluster ) which is a suite of tools that implents a multi machine scheduler, and message passing interface. Whats nice is that if one host is overloaded, it can migrate the process to another. (however I'm not…

Its really important to understand that puppet and the like cannot (without heavy engineering) act as a task dispatcher. The big feature of "DCOS" is task distribution. In linux terms its like comparing the CPU scheduler to chmod. Yes you can make a program run by chmoding a file to +x, but its the scheduler that is responsible for making sure the programme has CPU time.

Task distribution primitives are handled by Mesos and implemented in the various apps running on Mesos (Marathon, Chronos, etc.)

It seems inaccurate to call this a feature of DCOS.

Puppet and the like can easily configure and manage Mesos and the various apps running on top, giving all the task dispatch functionality goodness.

DCOS will hopefully be a great integrated Mesos distribution. Seems to me that by supporting machine provisioning and having a per-node licensing model, it's being positioning as a direct competitor to Openstack and VMWare.

Re: Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Funding

#47

Post by 23david »

kelseyhightower wrote: post #26

Disclosure: CoreOS employee; Kubernetes contributor. After reading the title I was a bit tempted to call BS since I think Kubernetes should have the rights to "The first Datacenter OS" tagline[1]. However, after reading up on the project details at https://mesosphere.com/learn I can see how Mesosphere came to the conclusion of being a DCOS, if not necessarily the first. Mesosphere goes a bit further than Kubernetes a…

Curious why you wouldn't consider Openstack to be a Datacenter OS? :-)

Re: Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Funding

#48

Post by 23david »

KaiserPro wrote: post #33
23david wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're general purpose devops automation frameworks... you can choose to take any of them and make this 'deep integrated' layer you speak of. For example, Openstack deployments are commonly automated using Puppet scripts. (Really amazing stuff if you haven't seen it before...) DCOS may choose to reinvent the wheel, but unless there's a core innovation in the way they're handling orchestration or automation, I think…

Puppet and the like are state enforcement tools, not task schedulers. As someone who used to run a 6000 core farm in 2007 (its not 25,000) I can tell you that puppet isn't going to help task placement. It can create machine that will run a certain app, but without some heavy programming it'll never balance or detect need and respond sensibly.

DevOps tools are rapidly evolving. Now that they've basically finished with machine provisioning, dependency management and orchestration, all major DevOps automation frameworks are going into managing reactive infrastructure. Enforcing a task schedule is just another form of state enforcement.

These are all pretty similar: - configuration management: ensure package oracle-java-8 is installed on machines A,B,C with this specific configuration. - orchestration: ensure my-awesome-java-app on machines A,B,C is running to databases on machine D,E,F - deployment with constraints: ensure that four instances of my-awesome-java-app are running on at least 2 physical machines with over 4TB free disk space. - job runner: ensure that script X runs on a cluster every __ minutes. when script X runs, send the output to script Y

I think that you'll see task placement and job scheduling primitives being integrated into DevOps tooling in the next 6-12 months.

Saltstack already has many of the primitives in place for building out reactive infrastructure, http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/runners/all/salt.run...

Would be great to hear about tools for Puppet, Chef, Ansible, other…

Re: Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Funding

#49

Post by Zariel »

presspot wrote: post #37
Zariel wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it running ontop of the Mesos kernel, which has been around for longer than Kubernetes?

A bit of the history: The Mesosphere DCOS is built around the Apache Mesos kernel The Mesos kernel was developed at UC Berkeley in 2009 [1]. Spark was written as a sample app on top of it [2]. Ben Hindman and his colleagues at the UC Berkeley AmpLab had always envisioned Mesos as a kernel inside of a full-blown operating system [3]. They finally brought it to market. [1] https://www.usenix.org/legacy/event/nsdi11/tec…

Yep, also had input from Google around the time there were deploying (or building) their new scheduler to replace Borg, Omega.

Re: Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Funding

#50

Post by kozyraki »

boulos wrote: post #43
kozyraki wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My view on this the following: Mesos is similar to the kernel of a conventional operating system (e.g. Linux). It provides very basic services (scheduling, interrupts, device management, etc) and a syscall API. But nobody wants to program to this API. Hence you need libc or other similar libraries to provide a higher level API that programmers use to interact with the kernel. Kubernetes, Marathon, Aurora, etc are suc…

I see what you're saying Christos, but I think I'd prefer "runtime" over library (library sounds like it's just a little convenience).

Sure, pthreads and other thread libraries that include a lot of runtime functionality would probably be a better analogy.
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