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I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

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Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, what did you geek about then? Programming is all about algorithms and data structures, irrespective of application domain.

>Well, what did you geek about then? Parsers, grammars, computability and complexity, source-tree optimizations, intermediate representations, intuitionistic logic, type theory, PL design, microkernels, macrokernels, message-passing, locking and semaphores, scheduling algorithms, the x86 kernel-level instruction set, interactive theorem proving, functional programming, game-type vector graphics and raster graphics. N…

I got some bad news for you eli:

If you put all that stuff on your resume, you'll never find work as a mobile app developer.

A rather common request of those who hire mobile development consultants is, "I want a game just like Angry Birds, only different".

And that's it.

I mean that's the only specification they can supply. Not the only spec they are willing to supply - the only spec they know HOW to supply.

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#132

Why is it that there either has to be a shortage or abundance or tech workers? I think as of now the stream of Tech workers is adequately filling seats. Tech is one of those fields that ends up a lot like dating. You know there's people out there that could re-write your whole system overnight--the "rockstars". Because of this I get the feeling that people are turning down tons of job applications just because they f…

Rockstars blow their paychecks up their nose, cheat on their wives and girlfriends with groupies, trash hotel rooms then die young, or perhaps live to a ripe old age of poverty and destitution.

I have gotten to the point that when someone advertises for a rockstar, I don't even apply.

Do you know what a bozo filter is? Have a look at mine:

http://www.warplife.com/mdc/resume/

At the very top of every single page of my site are links to two essays about my - quite severe - mental illness, as well as the first chapter of a book about how engineers get people killed by screwing up on the job.

In the US, it's flatly illegal to discriminate against the mentally ill for reasons of employment. The specific reason I am a coder and not a physicist is that I write good code even when I am hallucinating.

If they get past that, then have a look at how a whole bunch of people really have been killed by clueless engineers - as when an incompetently designed truss bridge took the lives of one thousand steelworkers back in the day - perhaps they don't want to hire me because I would hold the entire company to the same standards I hold myself to.

I haven't always been that way. I've written a whole lot of code I'd rather that no one ever get to look at. I've written quite a lot of really stupid programs, just because we all knew they would sell really well.

But I'll be fifty-one years old soon.

I'm concerned about whether anyone will remember me after I'm gone.

They sure aren't going to remember that I did a stellar job writing the test tools for Apple's MacTCP.

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#133

There is no shortage of work. There is a drought of talented engineers though. Most of them are terrible.

You are just repeating this. How do you know there is actually a shortage, rather than a lack of a process for finding them? Or a lack of ways for them to find the good employers? A non functioning market is rather hard to distinguish from inability to find what you want.

I don't think I made it clear in my OP, my thesis is that there is a lack of process in both directions.

It's not just that I believe that employers can't find qualified staff, but that qualified staff cannot find jobs.

I have numerous theories as to the cause of this.

Among my proposed solutions is to set off huge long flamewars at the Hacker News. :-P

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are just repeating this. How do you know there is actually a shortage, rather than a lack of a process for finding them? Or a lack of ways for them to find the good employers? A non functioning market is rather hard to distinguish from inability to find what you want.

I can speak for myself, I co-founded and run a tech company in Cambridge MA. We are looking for machine-vision programmers and the ones who have experience in thsi space are all either snapped up by amazon, fb and google or doing their own startup. Our choices were to either hire a freshly minted PhD in AI from MIT (H1b) or from the legion of the resume-padded "locals" with made up skill-sets, who expect a job, just…

I know all about 2-D image processing but not about pattern recognition.

I've done some algorithmically complex stuff, like Live Picture, which was a combination vector/bitmap graphic editor, which enabled one to do prepress graphic work for magazines and product packaging, by compositing 200 MB bitmap graphics on a 32 MB 68040 Macintosh.

Unfortunately, Adobe's marketing people were far better than ours. Our program was far superior to Photoshop, but no one could figure out how to actually sell it.

Given that, could you use me?

I'd rather not relocate, but if I did relocate, Cambridge would be a top choice for me. I've been there a few times, and once lived in mid-coast Maine.

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#135

> At one time, a college degree and a demonstrable grasp of computing technology was all one needed. Yep, and that turned out to be a fucking disaster. So we learned how to filter for programming skills, and the results were utterly depressing. The vast majority of those "engineers who are unable to find work" couldn't code their way out of a paper bag. That applies to the majority of applicants unless we start filte…

Actually I strive constantly to learn new languages, toolsets, platforms, frameworks and protocols completely on my own.

But that doesn't help me get a job. No one has paid me to work with any of those, see.

If I can somehow get a job through some other means, then yes, all of my self-study is a huge help to me, to my coworkers and my clients.

What people actually ASK of me, when they think they're looking for "actual proven experience", is "how many years of experience" I have with a given technology.

No one EVER asks what I actually did with it, whether I shipped a product as a result, whether my code actually worked, whether it got good reviews, or sold well.

If I weren't such a nice guy, I know damn well I could totally fabricate my resume, and I'd have $250k and an office with a door I could shut in a heartbeat.

It would actually work really well, because you know - I do invest in my own training. So I really could do the work, even if my resume were fabricated.

But I'm a nice guy, so I don't fabricate my resume.

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#136
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I think it's _you_ who don't understand how the legal system works. When one is the respondent in a civil lawsuit, one has to depose under oath, and one must supply what is requested in discovery. Yes, the respondent can ask that a judge quash a discovery subpeona, with the usual argument being that it's "just a fishing expedition". However, given Zuckerberg's adamant insistence that young people are smarter…

Has Zuckerberg said anything about the matter in the last 5 years? If not, then you have no standing, and you have no legal power to compel FB to do anything for you. Legal precedent is against you, and I quoted a California Supreme Court case which went into the details for both California and US anti-discrimination law. Anti-discrimination laws give you 180 calendar days from the day the discrimination took place (…

I was refused a job at Amazon just two days ago, because I am mentally ill.

My website makes that plainly apparent. That's called "Voluntary Self-Identification" in the Americans with Disabilities Act.

I am dead certain that I am a far, far better coder than most of those who are already employed by Amazon.

While yes, Zuckerberg said that in 2007 I don't see any evidence that he's changed his attitude.

I never said that I myself ever applied to work at Facebook - and I never will. If I already know I won't like my place of work, I won't even apply.

However, I'm not the only fifty year-old coder who's looking for a job.

All that the UNITED STATES JUSTICE DEPARTMENT - not the applicant - would have to prove is that just one facebook employee turned down an applicant because he was forty or more years old.

Now are you going to tell me that that doesn't happen at facebook anymore?

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#137
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're using anecdotal evidence to argue against the general case. Consider the book "Laughter is the Best Medicine". Some guy's cancer went into remission when he watched a whole bunch of really funny movies. Given that, would you suggest that we should do away with chemotherapy, radiation and oncology surgeons?

You started off by saying it was difficult, then used an example of where it was easy. Given the existence of Craigslist, Monster, Stack Overflow Careers, etc. over and beyond what was available 30 years ago, it should be easier now to find employees rather than harder. You need to demonstrate that it's actually harder. Under your analogy, you haven't shown that the people actually have cancer in the first place.

Craigslist, Monster, Careers 2.0 are the problem, not the solution.

At one time I only had two ways to look for a job: under "Computer Programming" in the Yellow Pages, and in the Sunday San Jose Mercury News.

Now there are vast numbers of job boards, newspapers are going bankrupt because craigslist job posts are completely free of charge in most cities, and no one even knows what the yellow pages are.

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#138
I seem to have struck a chord with this post. A lot more comments than I expected, and sixty points added to my karma.

Thank you for helping me reach an important decision. For some time now I've been puzzling over the idea of offering a consulting service in which I would screen resumes for a fee. After a chat with a friend who is a manager with an eCommerce startup, I've decided to pursue it.

I didn't have a clue as to how to get started. He suggested I do it for free for a little while, to build my reputation. That's what I'm going to do.

I expect it would help to register a domain for this specific service, rather than use the rather eccentric website I presently have. I don't know yet what the domain will be. I need to catch some ZZZs, so I'll deal with it tomorrow.

I mentioned this in one of my comments below. Someone pointed out that background check services already do this. Actually I would be quite different from a background check, in that I would screen resumes _before_ the interviews, so you don't have to interview clearly unqualified candidates.

Also I'd be looking into their technical qualifications, not their criminal record or record histories.

This is just what headhunters are supposed to do. It's not that they couldn't screen resumes - but they don't.

-- Mike

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#139
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, that's where I live. Maybe you could let my employer know that's what he's supposed to be like.

> Yup, that's where I live. Maybe you could let my employer know that's what he's supposed to be like. Hey it's your employer so maybe you should speak to them. It is not an unusual practice.

Trust me it is.

Re: I Don't Agree That There Really Is a Tech Worker Shortage

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Well, what did you geek about then? Parsers, grammars, computability and complexity, source-tree optimizations, intermediate representations, intuitionistic logic, type theory, PL design, microkernels, macrokernels, message-passing, locking and semaphores, scheduling algorithms, the x86 kernel-level instruction set, interactive theorem proving, functional programming, game-type vector graphics and raster graphics. N…

I got some bad news for you eli: If you put all that stuff on your resume, you'll never find work as a mobile app developer. A rather common request of those who hire mobile development consultants is, "I want a game just like Angry Birds, only different". And that's it. I mean that's the only specification they can supply. Not the only spec they are willing to supply - the only spec they know HOW to supply.

Strangely enough, I don't want to find work as a mobile app developer. Were you being ironic?
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