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Confessions of a mortician

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Re: Confessions of a mortician

#21

Post by cdoxsey »

christiangenco wrote: post #19

The raw terror of the inevitability of death without comfort of distraction or mental illusion — "fleshing," as Puchner describes it — was brilliantly captured here in a way I've never before heard or read expressed by another person. It's relieving, in a way, to know that I'm not the only human to chronically go through it. I especially enjoyed his comment on the difficulties of erecting a comforting fantasy of an a…

  It's a curse, in a way, to have (be?) a brain trained to recognize and solve problems, optimize expected outcome, and see through bullshit when the popular solution to existential debilitating dread — religion — crumbles at the slightest analysis. Ignorance is bliss, to add to Puchner's ostensibly empty bromides.
There are a lot of very intelligent people who believe in an afterlife. They aren't ignorant about the reality of death, nor are they practicing "bullshit". They honestly and earnestly believe in what they advocate.

The disagreement is fundamental in nature. The afterlife was never demonstrated to be false. It was rejected because it contradicts naturalism. Believers didn't make some mistake in logic along the way, they started from a different set of assumptions.

To rephrase your original statement:

  It's a curse, in a way, to have (be?) a brain trained in logical positivism, to only accept scientific answers, and reject out-of-hand any other possible answers which might provide hope rather than existential debilitating dread

Re: Confessions of a mortician

#22

Post by ams6110 »

christiangenco wrote: post #19

The raw terror of the inevitability of death without comfort of distraction or mental illusion — "fleshing," as Puchner describes it — was brilliantly captured here in a way I've never before heard or read expressed by another person. It's relieving, in a way, to know that I'm not the only human to chronically go through it. I especially enjoyed his comment on the difficulties of erecting a comforting fantasy of an a…

It's quite interesting to me that people (you, Puchner, some others here) would experience literal "breathless terrors" at the thought of one's own death. It's never come close to that for me. I've seen both my parents as well as several friends die rather unpleasant deaths (cancer) and I myself have been robbed at gunpoint but I have never felt terror contemplating my own death. It just seems to me to be the natural end of things, and it will come when it comes.

I certainly don't want to die any sooner than I have to; I'd like to see my own kids grow up, be sure they are given the opportunities I had (education, etc.) but I don't really fear dying. I'm not sure why anyone would, it's inevitable after all.

Re: Confessions of a mortician

#23

Post by meowface »

ams6110 wrote: post #22
christiangenco wrote: post #19

The raw terror of the inevitability of death without comfort of distraction or mental illusion — "fleshing," as Puchner describes it — was brilliantly captured here in a way I've never before heard or read expressed by another person. It's relieving, in a way, to know that I'm not the only human to chronically go through it. I especially enjoyed his comment on the difficulties of erecting a comforting fantasy of an a…

It's quite interesting to me that people (you, Puchner, some others here) would experience literal "breathless terrors" at the thought of one's own death. It's never come close to that for me. I've seen both my parents as well as several friends die rather unpleasant deaths (cancer) and I myself have been robbed at gunpoint but I have never felt terror contemplating my own death. It just seems to me to be the natural…

For me, the fear is not of dying, but of permanently losing the potential to ever experience any aspect of life again. It's an unsettling thought that I will never be able to experience fun, laughter, love, or success again. I won't have ideas, I won't hope, I won't dream. My conscious mind will simply join the eternal void and cease to exist.

I really dislike the idea of not only having no experiences, but never even having a chance of having any experiences again. I'd like to believe there could be some kind of afterlife, but I think it's overwhelmingly likely that there isn't one.

That's the only thing that frightens me.

There's also the aspect that I'll never be able to experience the undoubtedly amazing inventions and innovations in technology, food, entertainment, etc. that will sweep the world in the next few centuries and millennia. Many future humans will lead lives we could never even begin to dream of, and I won't even be able to observe that from afar, let alone actually participate in it.

Another fear of mine is that I will have just barely undershot the window of biological immortality. It's very possible I've missed it by 200-300 years, maybe even 100 years, which on the grand scale of human history and the universe's history is exceedingly small. So close, and yet so far.

Re: Confessions of a mortician

#24

Post by huherto »

christiangenco wrote: post #19

The raw terror of the inevitability of death without comfort of distraction or mental illusion — "fleshing," as Puchner describes it — was brilliantly captured here in a way I've never before heard or read expressed by another person. It's relieving, in a way, to know that I'm not the only human to chronically go through it. I especially enjoyed his comment on the difficulties of erecting a comforting fantasy of an a…

I first experienced anxiety about the inevitability of death (or non-existing ever again) when I was sixteen. Grew up on atheist family so I never had the comfort from religion.

These are some of the ideas that have helped me along, in case is useful for anyone. Take what works for you, ignore the rest.

1- Don't spend too much time thinking about it. Your time is short, it is silly to waste it worrying. You cannot do much about it anyway.

2- Death is the price you pay for living. Be grateful that you had the chance. It is truly a miracle that you are even alive.

3- Enjoy life and leave a legacy. It can be as simple and as important as the way you lived your life. Your example.

4- All the evidence tells me that there is not an afterlife. But I still save a little hope. There may be things that are unknowable. May be on the form of your 1) area. So, who knows.

Re: Confessions of a mortician

#25

Post by asveikau »

jgmmo wrote: post #2

Interesting article; no doubt there are some interesting things to learn about death from a mortician - however this article felt way too long.

I assume your complaint about the article length is that life is short, time is fleeting, and the 20 minutes you'd spend reading the article can be better put to seizing the day. Carpe diem!

Re: Confessions of a mortician

#26

Post by proveanegative »

huherto wrote: post #24
christiangenco wrote: post #19

The raw terror of the inevitability of death without comfort of distraction or mental illusion — "fleshing," as Puchner describes it — was brilliantly captured here in a way I've never before heard or read expressed by another person. It's relieving, in a way, to know that I'm not the only human to chronically go through it. I especially enjoyed his comment on the difficulties of erecting a comforting fantasy of an a…

I first experienced anxiety about the inevitability of death (or non-existing ever again) when I was sixteen. Grew up on atheist family so I never had the comfort from religion. These are some of the ideas that have helped me along, in case is useful for anyone. Take what works for you, ignore the rest. 1- Don't spend too much time thinking about it. Your time is short, it is silly to waste it worrying. You cannot do…

>Death is the price you pay for living. Be grateful that you had the chance. It is truly a miracle that you are even alive.

Of course, the price you pay for living is not just death at the end of your life but also suffering throughout. Just how much suffering you will experience depends on many random factors the effects of some of which (like genetics and early childhood environment) are either very difficult or impossible to mitigate.

The hardest question to confront is whether the price of living is one worth paying. The antinatalists among us think that the answer to that question is generally a "no".

Re: Confessions of a mortician

#27

Post by thelettere »

Much of what we do every day is motivated by a fear of death. This is a well established psychological fact (supported by over 500 studies), yet ironically few are aware of it.

It goes by the name of "Terror Management Theory" and a decent review is here: https://www.uni-ulm.de/fileadmin/website_uni_ulm/iui.inst.16...

Interesting to note how difficult it was for them to get their idea taken seriously. Let that teach us to beware over-valuing our contemporaries opinions.

Note: a more recent review that's harder to get full text is here: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2215091914...

Re: Confessions of a mortician

#28

Post by maratd »

thelettere wrote: post #27

Much of what we do every day is motivated by a fear of death. This is a well established psychological fact (supported by over 500 studies), yet ironically few are aware of it. It goes by the name of "Terror Management Theory" and a decent review is here: https://www.uni-ulm.de/fileadmin/website_uni_ulm/iui.inst.16... Interesting to note how difficult it was for them to get their idea taken seriously. Let that teach…

> Much of what we do every day is motivated by a fear of death.

Everything we do is motivated by reproduction. Avoidance of death increases the probability of it.

Re: Confessions of a mortician

#29

Post by Gatsky »

christiangenco wrote: post #19

The raw terror of the inevitability of death without comfort of distraction or mental illusion — "fleshing," as Puchner describes it — was brilliantly captured here in a way I've never before heard or read expressed by another person. It's relieving, in a way, to know that I'm not the only human to chronically go through it. I especially enjoyed his comment on the difficulties of erecting a comforting fantasy of an a…

Fear of non-being, whether through death, losing one's mind, dementia etc is one aspect of the problem of living. I have found in my own case that the purely rational, aspiritual approach in life leaves me with a pretty anemic and empty philosophy on how to live, composed of a few cliches and self-aggrandized 'staring into the abyss'. Eventually I found this rather unsatisfying. I was hoping for something more than a constant reminder to make good use of my short and brutish life, which I don't do anyway. On the other hand, spiritual belief systems spend all their time addressing the question of how live in expansive and well packaged detail - and there doesn't seem to be a competitive secular equivalent. That could just be my own intellectual frailty... maybe others have found such a thing, or don't think it is necessary.

The logic of atheism is inescapable, but then what? What is the point of an axiom that leads to not only nothing, but actual nothingness?

Re: Confessions of a mortician

#30

Post by proveanegative »

ams6110 wrote: post #22
christiangenco wrote: post #19

The raw terror of the inevitability of death without comfort of distraction or mental illusion — "fleshing," as Puchner describes it — was brilliantly captured here in a way I've never before heard or read expressed by another person. It's relieving, in a way, to know that I'm not the only human to chronically go through it. I especially enjoyed his comment on the difficulties of erecting a comforting fantasy of an a…

It's quite interesting to me that people (you, Puchner, some others here) would experience literal "breathless terrors" at the thought of one's own death. It's never come close to that for me. I've seen both my parents as well as several friends die rather unpleasant deaths (cancer) and I myself have been robbed at gunpoint but I have never felt terror contemplating my own death. It just seems to me to be the natural…

Interesting. Do you believe in life after death? This is not something eagerly brought up on Hacker News but when discussing one's fear of death or lack thereof it is probably the most important bit of context to establish.
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