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Firefox for iOS on GitHub

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Re: Firefox for iOS on GitHub

#131

Post by gress »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #124
gress wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is vastly less secure than iOS, which is why there are millions of android devices participating in botnets, and millions of users having money stolen from them by malware on Android. Apple is cautious about allowing their consumer products to run downloaded code for this reason - it provides a clear and undeniable benefit for customers. Of course some people want to trade this benefit for the benefit of more…

The Android and iOS devices running malware are nearly all doing so due to the built-in security measures being disabled by the end user to enable the addition of apps not from their respective app stores. Specifically, Android devices with side-loading enabled or iOS devices that are jailbroken. Pirated versions of paid apps and games will often contain malware. There are numerous examples for both platforms. As to…

You have proven the point. If Apple allowed sideloading or rooting, nobody would accuse them of anti-competitive behavior.

Therefore you are asserting that what you are calling 'anti-competitive' behavior is precisely what limits malware on iOS vs Android.

Bear in mind that all of the major vendors, including Google have been convicted of wrongdoing and anti-competitive behavior, so linking to breathless headlines demonstrates nothing.

Re: Firefox for iOS on GitHub

#132

Post by JohnTHaller »

gress wrote: post #128
JohnTHaller wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put another way: iOS' app sandbox is so poorly made it can't handle any app that includes a scripting engine. (I'm kidding, of course) Realistically, Apple is about as anti-competitive as they come behavior-wise. And the 'engineering for security' bit has more to do with their marketing than their actual technology.

Given all the malware on Android, including giant botnets, it would seem that poor sandboxes are the current state of the art. The difference is that Apple is willing to recognize this and protect their customers from the shortcomings. Android's million node botnets and thousands of pieces of malware are not Apple's marketing. They are the reality of what Apple's policy has succeeded in protecting it's customers from…

It's funny that you keep referring to 'all the malware' on Android but not referring to the malware on iOS. It exists on both. Even botnets exist on iOS thanks to the automatic tools used to exploit the same iOS vulnerabilities used to jailbreak enabling drive-by installs of malware on iOS devices.

There was only one very large botnet ('up to' a million nodes) on Android and it wasn't on proper Android. It was on Android in China. So, no Google Play store and proper Android setup like you get on every phone in the US, Europe, etc. The botnet spread through... you guessed it... stolen games on unofficial 'app stores' of pirated software.

Comparing Apples to Apples, Google Play Android devices and un-jailbroken iOS devices, malware is virtually non-existent.

Re: Firefox for iOS on GitHub

#133

Post by k-mcgrady »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #93
k-mcgrady wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "I would like to understand what Mozilla gains here (if this is mostly a 'skin' around webkit/a web view control) and why iOS users would install it (I'm on Android - dipping my toes into FirefoxOS every couple of weeks)." On iOS you use WebKit or you don't make a browser. They don't have a choice. As for why you would install it, probably sync. If you use Firefox on desktop presumably you can now access your book…

On iOS you don't make a browser. Period. You get to make a skin for Safari. That's all.

Quite sure that's what I said... However I guess it all depends on your definition of 'browser'. Is it the rendering engine or the UI+features. I think for most people it's the latter. Even for me it's the latter actually. Most rendering engines are good enough now that the differentiation of done through features like syncing of bookmarks and history, auto generation of secure passwords, autofill of address/credit cards etc.

Re: Firefox for iOS on GitHub

#134

Post by gress »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #132
gress wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given all the malware on Android, including giant botnets, it would seem that poor sandboxes are the current state of the art. The difference is that Apple is willing to recognize this and protect their customers from the shortcomings. Android's million node botnets and thousands of pieces of malware are not Apple's marketing. They are the reality of what Apple's policy has succeeded in protecting it's customers from…

It's funny that you keep referring to 'all the malware' on Android but not referring to the malware on iOS. It exists on both. Even botnets exist on iOS thanks to the automatic tools used to exploit the same iOS vulnerabilities used to jailbreak enabling drive-by installs of malware on iOS devices. There was only one very large botnet ('up to' a million nodes) on Android and it wasn't on proper Android. It was on And…

97% of mobile malware is on Android: http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2014/03/24/report-97...

If you are pretending that the level or risk of malware on iOS is comparable to that on Android, you are either misinformed or dishonest.

Android is open by design. Alternative app-stores are part of that. If you discount the malware that results from people taking advantage of Android's openness, you must also discount any advantages you claim a lack of restriction would bring to iOS, or you are guilty of misrepresentation.

Re: Firefox for iOS on GitHub

#135

Post by pjc50 »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #68
darklajid wrote: post #64

I'm a Mozilla and Firefox fan, running Aurora on my desktop, tablet, mobile. Love the project and it's the best browser out there for me. That said.. As far as I understand the 'real meat', the engine, is now webkit. Which defeats the process for me. The UI was always what Firefox was lacking in and even the very latest design decisions are - well - not quite my cup of tea at least and potentially questionable. I wou…

>> "I would like to understand what Mozilla gains here (if this is mostly a 'skin' around webkit/a web view control) and why iOS users would install it (I'm on Android - dipping my toes into FirefoxOS every couple of weeks)." On iOS you use WebKit or you don't make a browser. They don't have a choice. As for why you would install it, probably sync. If you use Firefox on desktop presumably you can now access your book…

On iOS you use WebKit or you don't make a browser

Remember the days when software choice was a thing, and Microsoft were condemned for merely including a browser with the OS, not banning all software competition? Maybe in about a decade the competition authorities will wake up to this.

Re: Firefox for iOS on GitHub

#136

Post by JohnTHaller »

gress wrote: post #134
JohnTHaller wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that you keep referring to 'all the malware' on Android but not referring to the malware on iOS. It exists on both. Even botnets exist on iOS thanks to the automatic tools used to exploit the same iOS vulnerabilities used to jailbreak enabling drive-by installs of malware on iOS devices. There was only one very large botnet ('up to' a million nodes) on Android and it wasn't on proper Android. It was on And…

97% of mobile malware is on Android: http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2014/03/24/report-97... If you are pretending that the level or risk of malware on iOS is comparable to that on Android, you are either misinformed or dishonest. Android is open by design. Alternative app-stores are part of that. If you discount the malware that results from people taking advantage of Android's openness, you must also discou…

Because a ton of phones in China shipped with a random 3rd party app store that specifically contains pirated apps with malware, you're going to paint all of Android with that brush? Because Android allows an advanced end user to disable certain security precautions and purposely install stolen software that contains malware? That's either disingenuous or outright misleading.

The simple fact it, both Android and iOS, when used as shipped an intended, don't get malware for the average consumer. They both pass the 'mom test'.

There are 3rd party app stores available for Android that include malware infected pirated apps. These app stores are not sanctioned or approved by Google.

There are 3rd party app stores available for iOS that include malware infected pirated apps. These app stores are not sanctioned or approved by Apple.

If your rather lame attempt at painting all of Android as insecure is due the fact that you can run a 3rd party app store with malware, then it should also be true for Apple.

The simple fact is that it's incredibly easy to avoid malware on either platform. Don't hack it. Don't install apps outside of the app store (Google Play or Apple App Store).

Re: Firefox for iOS on GitHub

#137

Post by gress »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #136
gress wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

97% of mobile malware is on Android: http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2014/03/24/report-97... If you are pretending that the level or risk of malware on iOS is comparable to that on Android, you are either misinformed or dishonest. Android is open by design. Alternative app-stores are part of that. If you discount the malware that results from people taking advantage of Android's openness, you must also discou…

Because a ton of phones in China shipped with a random 3rd party app store that specifically contains pirated apps with malware, you're going to paint all of Android with that brush? Because Android allows an advanced end user to disable certain security precautions and purposely install stolen software that contains malware? That's either disingenuous or outright misleading. The simple fact it, both Android and iOS,…

Your claim rests on the idea that Android malware only propagates via 3rd party app stores, and not the Google play store, or any other vulnerability.

This is false.

You also claim that only Android 'sanctioned by Google' counts as Android. Also false, according to Google's own statistics and documentation.

Re: Firefox for iOS on GitHub

#138

Post by JohnTHaller »

gress wrote: post #137
JohnTHaller wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a ton of phones in China shipped with a random 3rd party app store that specifically contains pirated apps with malware, you're going to paint all of Android with that brush? Because Android allows an advanced end user to disable certain security precautions and purposely install stolen software that contains malware? That's either disingenuous or outright misleading. The simple fact it, both Android and iOS,…

Your claim rests on the idea that Android malware only propagates via 3rd party app stores, and not the Google play store, or any other vulnerability. This is false. You also claim that only Android 'sanctioned by Google' counts as Android. Also false, according to Google's own statistics and documentation.

I never claimed Android malware only propagates via 3rd party app stores. Nor did I claim that iOS malware only propogates via 3rd party app stores. I'm unsure why you continue to make up things I have said to use as strawmen to knock down.

Both Android and iOS have had issues with badware getting into their app stores and with drive by downloads due to insecurities... the same insecurities used to jailbreak/root the devices in many instances. These issues are publicly documented.

As no one here in the US or in Europe or anywhere else (except China) is buying an Android phone with one of the malware-ridden app stores shipped in China on it, there are simply zero concerns about it when you walk into AT&T or T-Mobile and buy an Android phone. Why on earth would someone here care that some non-Google Android phones shipped with a pirated software app store get malware? By that logic, used iOS devices that contain malware in the US would make you leery of buying a new iOS device in a legitimate store. Except that that isn't the case, nor should it be.

Based on the way you continue to argue against points I never made and seeing similar things in your HN comment history, I'm going to bow out of this conversation at this point.

Re: Firefox for iOS on GitHub

#139

Post by gress »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #138
gress wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your claim rests on the idea that Android malware only propagates via 3rd party app stores, and not the Google play store, or any other vulnerability. This is false. You also claim that only Android 'sanctioned by Google' counts as Android. Also false, according to Google's own statistics and documentation.

I never claimed Android malware only propagates via 3rd party app stores. Nor did I claim that iOS malware only propogates via 3rd party app stores. I'm unsure why you continue to make up things I have said to use as strawmen to knock down. Both Android and iOS have had issues with badware getting into their app stores and with drive by downloads due to insecurities... the same insecurities used to jailbreak/root the…

So because your attempt to dismiss half of android as being irrelevant because it's 'not sanctioned by Google' failed, you now decide that Android devices outside the U.S. don't count? I guess this is the closest you'll come to conceding that you were wrong.

Re: Firefox for iOS on GitHub

#140

Post by glandium »

nnethercote wrote: post #107
Aissen wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK, they never did. They did a launcher application that was sync-compatible to access all you bookmarks, etc.

It was built. Yesterday I was in the same room as the guy who built it. It was never officially released, however, due to the jailbreaking requirement. Officially, there was Firefox Home, which was just a bookmarking thing and not a full browser.

It was barely gecko being ported. It had nothing close to a usable mobile UI.
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