Live data from Hacker News

BPG Image format

bellard.org

141–150 of 339 posts

Re: BPG Image format

#141
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but webp hasn't taken off as much as some would like as a defacto standard. BPG looks good upon cursory inspection. It seems to be more efficient than WebP and supports 42-bit color. It also has .png's features of transparency and lossless compression although I didn't see anything mentioned about animation to replace .gif. Bonus: since it's based on h.265 hardware support will come naturally and should be just a…

Not to mention it has a JavaScript port that means it can work it browsers today .

There is also a Javascript port of WebP decoding: http://webpjs.appspot.com/

As a bonus, you won't have to pay for a HEVC decoder license.

Re: BPG Image format

#142
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you keep using a crop of your mother from her Playboy centerfold in the '70s as a test case for your algorithms, and you encourage other scientists to use the same picture, I might be a bit weirded out. And who wouldn't be! But that begs the question, is there a son or daughter of Lena Soderberg who is also a researcher or software engineer working in image compression algorithms? http://www.ee.cityu.edu.hk/~lmpo…

It does not "beg" any questions. It is still a question of context. Sexualizing women has nothing to do with image processing research.

>It does not "beg" any questions.

Yes it does. geofft wants to imply that it is somehow equivalent of using a nude of one's own mother, which is absurd.

>Sexualizing women has nothing to do with ...

Tell me why you think this one[1] is okay, as opposed to the Lena image; and what it has to do with whatever it is you do.

[1] http://jeremykun.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/gala-dali.jpg?w...

Re: BPG Image format

#145
post #19

I appreciate the historical tradition of using the photo of beautiful young Lena Söderberg as a test image, but it's time to move on. It's fun for us hetero males, but like it or not, this sends a message to young women that they aren't welcome in this field. I wish Fabrice Bellard would have left them out of the demo set. Having said that, all those demo photos do look good. I was wondering how we were going to see…

That's right. Fabrice Bellard, check your privilege you white hetero ablebodied cis scum, shitlord.

Although, it could've been worse. At least is not a photo of himself wearing some colorful chick shirt.

Re: BPG Image format

#146
post #2

Don't we already have WebP?

Yes but webp hasn't taken off as much as some would like as a defacto standard. BPG looks good upon cursory inspection. It seems to be more efficient than WebP and supports 42-bit color. It also has .png's features of transparency and lossless compression although I didn't see anything mentioned about animation to replace .gif. Bonus: since it's based on h.265 hardware support will come naturally and should be just a…

I think webp supports transparency and lossless.

Re: BPG Image format

#147
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention it has a JavaScript port that means it can work it browsers today .

Doesn't a JavaScript implementation offset most of the performance benefits? Today we have browsers that are smart about when to cache the decoded image and when not, etc; does that have to be reimplemented in javascript?

I have tried a dart webp decoder. it was so slow. decoding a small image (400*300) takes 300msecs.

Re: BPG Image format

#148
The big story here is this introduces a new image file format without requiring you to upgrade a browser or download a plugin. Those aren't PNGs of representative images you're looking at - that's BPG decoding happening in your browser.

So we don't like HVEC due to patent worries? Fine, we can swap in another format and use the same technique.

We don't have an I-frame format for Daala that's finalized yet? Fine, we can use work-in-progress. The format does not need to be finalized. If you update it, you rebuild your images and bundle a new JavaScript decoder.

The ability to ship media along with a sandboxed, runnable decoder is awesome, and I'm surprised it hasn't caught on until now. I remember Google a while back implemented their own "video" codec in JavaScript using JPEGs and primitive inter-frame processing, exactly because there wasn't a universal video codec format they could use.

Re: BPG Image format

#149
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about introducing a new male equivalent image of Lena instead? This approach would at least balance things out while maintaining an image that has become a standard to compare things to for a long time. If I were someone working on image compression techniques I would probably have seen many many algorithms and their output using that image so when I see a new algorithm and a new Lena, I might look at the result…

There's a difference between using a picture of a human face because we've determined it's useful for the test at hand, and using a 1970s Playboy scan because that was the most convenient thing for early computer-graphics researchers in the 1970s. In particular, the (appropriately-licensed) Kodak image set used in the Mozilla study includes multiple pictures of women, none of which are Playboy scans. The complaint is…

So the only real contention people have here is the source publication of the original image, right? Because AFAICT, the cropped image (as it's always been used in practice) is nor more or less offensive that kodim04.png from the kodak set.

Furthermore, why does the licensing matter? Near as I can tell every use of Lena, except for by a for-profit company, constitutes fair use. The image, every time I've seen it, has been used for non-profit educational work. It's never reproduced in its entirety. The use of the image for this image compression purposes has no impact on the original market for which the image was originally created. Does this not meet the requirements of fair use?

That all said, I agree that if their is a better images available for this purposes, those should be used as well, but that is an entirely separate issue from whether or not Lena should or should not be used. The happenstance provenance of the image is really the only controversial detail, and if we go back to the history of why it was used it was mere chance:

    Alexander Sawchuk estimates that it was in June or July of 
    1973 when he, then an assistant professor of electrical 
    engineering at the University of Southern California Signal 
    and Image Processing Institute (SIPI), along with a graduate 
    student and the SIPI lab manager, was hurriedly searching the 
    lab for a good image to scan for a colleague's conference 
    paper. They got tired of their stock of usual test images, 
    dull stuff dating back to television standards work in the 
    early 1960s. They wanted something glossy to ensure good 
    output dynamic range, and they wanted a human face. Just 
    then, somebody happened to walk in with a recent issue of 
    Playboy.[0]
Put yourself back in 1973. Imagine all the different sources of high quality glossy images of a human face with high dynamic range you might have easy access to 41 years ago. I have a hard time thinking of content that would have been available at that time that would have rivaled Playboy. I have no qualms with people judging things from today in todays terms, but presentism [1] tends to rub me the wrong way. If you want to judge something, don't do so anachronistically.

Anyways, I want to re-iterate my main point, which you did not address:

    If I were someone working on image compression techniques I 
    would probably have seen many many algorithms and their output 
    using that image so when I see a new algorithm and a new Lena, 
    I might look at the results and think "Hey, this is similar to 
    this other approach I am familiar with"
There is value in consistency/continuity. Starting to use the image of Fabio Lanzoni like Deanna Needell and Rachel Ward did is a "lossless" approach of dealing with the controversial provenance of Lena.

[0]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenna#History

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentism_%28literary_and_hist...

Re: BPG Image format

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Progressive rendering of HEVC is not possible in the same way as it is done for JPEG or PNG. It is also not very suited to GPU rendering. A C++ decoder with assembly optimizations could easily run four times as fast as the Javascript version. Unfortunately distributing it would not be possible due to patents.

Four times? You can expect the C/C++ version (with some SIMD intrinsics) to run 10-30x faster than the JIT-optimized JS version.

There is also the overhead of using a canvas element as a render target instead of a normal image surface, and using the canvas API instead of just writing color values straight to a buffer.
Post reply on HN