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BPG Image format

bellard.org

131–140 of 339 posts

Re: BPG Image format

#131
post #125
post #18

I was ready to pass by this post with a yawn until I saw where it was coming from: Fabrice Bellard. He's no doubt an absolute freakin' genius. And if anybody knows about image conversion, it's him. Even the things he does just for fun are impressive. Have you ever booted up Linux inside your browser? http://bellard.org/jslinux/

not just about image compression, he also did some Tiny C compiler a while ago. he also had some other nice tech demos...

don't forget QEMU.

Re: BPG Image format

#132
post #19

I appreciate the historical tradition of using the photo of beautiful young Lena Söderberg as a test image, but it's time to move on. It's fun for us hetero males, but like it or not, this sends a message to young women that they aren't welcome in this field. I wish Fabrice Bellard would have left them out of the demo set. Having said that, all those demo photos do look good. I was wondering how we were going to see…

People are too sensitive. I'm a hetero male, and I don't find the image 'fun' at all... it's just an image. It doesn't send a message to anyone. If anything, I don't really care for it for image algorithm tests because the palette is fairly flat. No matter how you feel about the image itself, though, there is value in continuing to use it... people are familiar with it, to the point of it becoming almost cliché. This…

The smallish downside of continuing with it may outweigh the very small upside. The image by itself might not be a big deal, but we're trying to disrupt the pattern of women being used only as objects, not perpetuate it.

Re: BPG Image format

#133
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Most devices already include or will include hardware HEVC support, so we suggest to use it if patents are an issue." I don't know if that suggestion makes much sense, but you missed it in your quote.

I can't imagine ever wanting to spin up a hardware HEVC decoder context every time I want to render an image. That would enormously slow down display of a web page with this format. Edit: decoder, not encoder

That would be decoding, not encoding.

Re: BPG Image format

#134
post #74

Impressive! Right now it requires a .js decoder, of 75kb. Assuming a fast C++ decoder instead,(possibly GPU accelerated if the decoding algorithm is well suited for it) and not using JS but what would be the rendering times? PNG are 4x bigger in his experiments, but interlaced PNG makes it more pleasant to users since it can be rendered progressively, can BPG benefit from such a thing? edit: Interlacing is also used…

Progressive rendering of HEVC is not possible in the same way as it is done for JPEG or PNG. It is also not very suited to GPU rendering. A C++ decoder with assembly optimizations could easily run four times as fast as the Javascript version. Unfortunately distributing it would not be possible due to patents.

Four times? You can expect the C/C++ version (with some SIMD intrinsics) to run 10-30x faster than the JIT-optimized JS version.

Re: BPG Image format

#135
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He should be working on Daala next (for both video and image formats). Let's make the next media formats for the web truly open source. > Based on a subset of the HEVC open video compression standard. So BPG is patent-encumbered, right?

At the bottom of the linked article is the answer to your question, with links to more information. tl;dr (obviously tl;dr): This format is very, very easy to implement despite the patent risk, simply by assuming that any device new enough to be considering including it will have already licensed the relevant patents.

The patents would only cover the implementation that comes with the hardware, not any other software implementation running on it. This means you'd have to use the hardware decoder APIs to decode images, which is less than ideal when you want fast, low latency decoding.

Re: BPG Image format

#136
post #123

EDIT: I didn't expect this comment to be so popular and feel like I've hijacked the thread a little - sorry. Feel free to continue at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8706850 I would much rather someone revived the Fractal Image format, which is now out of patent. It's very expensive to encode, but that's nowhere near as big a problem as it used to be. It's very fast to decode, very small, and the files are resol…

Fractal compression is a scam. The "resolution independent" part especially.

http://www.ams.org/notices/199606/barnsley.pdf

Re: BPG Image format

#137
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, it's kinda hard to tell with this one: http://r0k.us/graphics/kodak/kodim04.html The fact that you call the uncropped image "pornographic" (which, yes, it technically is) when Playboy centerfolds are rather tame by modern standards kinda hints at the real problem here: the boring old American prudishness that has been masquerading as feminism as of late. I sincerely could not care less if Bellard had used Bi…

Now show me a picture of a man from that dataset that could possibly be construed as sexual. This is not a matter of prudishness. I would be totally fine (see my other comment in this thread) if researchers used both male and female crops, but they don't. So to make your point you need to show me all of the male French researchers who are accepting of male nudity in their image processing research. I would be very su…

>Now show me a picture of a man from that dataset that could possibly be construed as sexual.

>This is not a matter of prudishness.

There seems to be a contradiction here.

>I would be very surprised if you could find me a single one.

I agree, not because I think male French researchers would give a rat's ass about the cropped head of a naked guy appearing as a test subject, but because I doubt any would be foolish enough to poke the proverbial hornet's nest and incur the wrath of self-righteous west coast white guys tweeting on their iPhones.

Re: BPG Image format

#138
post #108

How does it compare to WebP? Also, how you measures lossy image quality? What are the metrics? I hope it's not just by looking at result and judging.

Looking at the result and judging is actually the best and most important metric. There are numerical metrics, like SSIM, but they are always worse than human comparison trials. You're optimizing for what looks best to a human in the end, after all.

Re: BPG Image format

#139
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but webp hasn't taken off as much as some would like as a defacto standard. BPG looks good upon cursory inspection. It seems to be more efficient than WebP and supports 42-bit color. It also has .png's features of transparency and lossless compression although I didn't see anything mentioned about animation to replace .gif. Bonus: since it's based on h.265 hardware support will come naturally and should be just a…

Not to mention it has a JavaScript port that means it can work it browsers today .

Doesn't a JavaScript implementation offset most of the performance benefits? Today we have browsers that are smart about when to cache the decoded image and when not, etc; does that have to be reimplemented in javascript?

Re: BPG Image format

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a hetero male ... it's just an image. That's the exact privilege you get to enjoy as a hetero male. You get to ignore things like this when your female colleagues (if you're lucky enough to work with any) have to look at the image and be reminded that many people continue to view them as objects.

Not sure if you're trolling, but I have a spare minute... - If I post a picture of a cute kitten, does it mean I look at a cat as an object? That I will only under-appreciate all animals because I liked a photo of one? - If I post a picture of my mother or father, am I objectifying them? - What if I take a picture of a street performer who's doing some awesome thing and post it... am I reducing them to simply an obje…

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