Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction • Hacker News Board

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#31

Post by pervycreeper » Fri, Dec 05, 2014, 8:59 AM UTC

aikah wrote: post #28

pervycreeper wrote: post #5

>The sale also became symbolic of a quest for redemption after he became what he called an “unperson” in the scientific community seven years ago So much for science as a bastion of disinterested objective investigation. When a community's greatest minds (such as Perelman, Grothendieck, etc., in math, for instance) become alienated from the larger community, when conformity and publishing quantity (over quality) is r…

There is a difference between dissent and bigotry. Obviously Watson is a racist and a bigot,and is treated by his peers accordingly. > So much for science as a bastion of disinterested objective investigation. Nazi scientists and race theorists also thought they were "objectively investigating". You people never learn.

>bigotery * [sic, before ninja edit]

>You people never learn

A telling choice of words. It goes without saying that I firmly stand against over-generalization and stereotyping. This is evidently not true of all commenters, however.

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#32

Post by aikah » Fri, Dec 05, 2014, 9:02 AM UTC

seekingtruth wrote: post #30

aikah wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy is racist period.What he says is racist,no matter how talented he is.There is no excuse for what he says ,especially as a scientist. I'm black.to suggest that my intelligence is linked to the color of my skin is ridiculous. And never forget that a whole bunch of white-supremacists out there are using his credentials to justify whatever violent ideology they promote,and these people don't just talk,they harass…

That something someone says makes you feel bad or is used by others to justify ideas or actions you find loathsome does not make that person or what he said wrong. Your skin color and height are highly heritable attributes and it is by no means an outrageous assertion to state that intelligence is as well. Some estimates for heritability of intelligence are as high as 0.8. [1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritab…

Not going to discuss with a a throwaway account. You can go back to /r/greatapes and have fun with your racist pals.

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#33

Post by aikah » Fri, Dec 05, 2014, 9:08 AM UTC

pervycreeper wrote: post #31

aikah wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between dissent and bigotry. Obviously Watson is a racist and a bigot,and is treated by his peers accordingly. > So much for science as a bastion of disinterested objective investigation. Nazi scientists and race theorists also thought they were "objectively investigating". You people never learn.

>bigotery * [ sic , before ninja edit] > You people never learn A telling choice of words. It goes without saying that I firmly stand against over-generalization and stereotyping. This is evidently not true of all commenters, however.

> I firmly stand against over-generalization and stereotyping.

Obviously you dont,if you find anything that guys says defensible, I tell you that from scientist to scientist.

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#34

Post by tinco » Fri, Dec 05, 2014, 9:11 AM UTC

seekingtruth wrote: post #30

aikah wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy is racist period.What he says is racist,no matter how talented he is.There is no excuse for what he says ,especially as a scientist. I'm black.to suggest that my intelligence is linked to the color of my skin is ridiculous. And never forget that a whole bunch of white-supremacists out there are using his credentials to justify whatever violent ideology they promote,and these people don't just talk,they harass…

That something someone says makes you feel bad or is used by others to justify ideas or actions you find loathsome does not make that person or what he said wrong. Your skin color and height are highly heritable attributes and it is by no means an outrageous assertion to state that intelligence is as well. Some estimates for heritability of intelligence are as high as 0.8. [1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritab…

It's irrelevant whether intelligence is an inheritable trait or not. You can not say 'all Asians are short' nor 'all Africans are black' as they simply aren't all, nor does the precise number or accuracy give you indication about the traits of any single person. Watson is under the blatantly false impression that his statement have statistical merit when they clearly don't. He was simply wrong and should not have spoken about a field clearly outside his expertise.

The interpretation of the adoption research in the article you linked is particularly infuriating as there is only one thing clearly dominating in the results, the upbringing of the child which accounts for a full 10 points, a number that would seem to point to an almost irrelevance of any genetic predisposition let alone one correlated with prehistoric ancestry, those 3 points could come from literally any uncontrolled for other environmental influence.

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#35

Post by seekingtruth » Fri, Dec 05, 2014, 9:13 AM UTC

aikah wrote: post #32

seekingtruth wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That something someone says makes you feel bad or is used by others to justify ideas or actions you find loathsome does not make that person or what he said wrong. Your skin color and height are highly heritable attributes and it is by no means an outrageous assertion to state that intelligence is as well. Some estimates for heritability of intelligence are as high as 0.8. [1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritab…

Not going to discuss with a a throwaway account. You can go back to /r/greatapes and have fun with your racist pals.

There is never anything to discuss with people who would rather close their eyes and ears and call others names than bother to read discomforting information.

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#36

Post by mironathetin » Fri, Dec 05, 2014, 9:34 AM UTC

Who buys something like that? Not that I don't like to see the money of a wealthy person going into science. Better than a stupid investment into (put here whatever multiplies money). But to me its like eating the heart of your enemy to let his strength leap over to you. Thank god, it doesn't work.

Is it only me, or is it a weird purchase?

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#37

Post by czr80 » Fri, Dec 05, 2014, 9:37 AM UTC

seekingtruth wrote: post #30

aikah wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy is racist period.What he says is racist,no matter how talented he is.There is no excuse for what he says ,especially as a scientist. I'm black.to suggest that my intelligence is linked to the color of my skin is ridiculous. And never forget that a whole bunch of white-supremacists out there are using his credentials to justify whatever violent ideology they promote,and these people don't just talk,they harass…

That something someone says makes you feel bad or is used by others to justify ideas or actions you find loathsome does not make that person or what he said wrong. Your skin color and height are highly heritable attributes and it is by no means an outrageous assertion to state that intelligence is as well. Some estimates for heritability of intelligence are as high as 0.8. [1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritab…

Height is highly heritable. North and South Koreans are genetically the same. The average South Korean is six inches taller than the average North Korean.

What does the assertion that intelligence is heritable mean to you?

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#38

Post by outis » Fri, Dec 05, 2014, 9:53 AM UTC

jjoonathan wrote: post #13

nitin_flanker wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why he is a jerk? it's his rights to decide what to do with that medal. isn't it? Why people are criticizing him is out of my head. People also call him racist because of his another discovery. I mean let him do whatever he wants to do with that. Will a medal going to carry away whatever he does for the science?

He established his reputation as a jerk independently of selling the medal. Here are some quotes: > [I am] inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa [because] all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours—whereas all the testing says not really. He's flat out wrong about what "all the testing" says, btw. We're not just bashing someone for speaking a politically unpopul…

> He's flat out wrong about what "all the testing" says, btw.

I would be grateful if you could go into some more detail about this. There have been articles on HN recently that made a strong case for the genetic basis of IQ and for its validity as a measure of intelligence. It's also easy to find data about the average measured IQ in different racial groups. But there are also a variety of arguments that weaken or strengthen the case, from the Flynn effect to studies on twins, adopted children, etc. It seems to me that the issue is muddled, at best. If there is a slam-dunk argument that can finally bury the notion of intelligence differences between races, I'd like to see it articulated.

Disclaimer: I do not belong to the race with the highest supposed IQ, and I have never taken an IQ test myself, so I really have no horse in this race. Also, even if racial differences in intelligence were real, individual differences would still be more important, and it would remain unacceptable to make assumptions about someone's intelligence based on their race.

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#39

Post by shamney » Fri, Dec 05, 2014, 9:58 AM UTC

jjoonathan wrote: post #13

nitin_flanker wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why he is a jerk? it's his rights to decide what to do with that medal. isn't it? Why people are criticizing him is out of my head. People also call him racist because of his another discovery. I mean let him do whatever he wants to do with that. Will a medal going to carry away whatever he does for the science?

He established his reputation as a jerk independently of selling the medal. Here are some quotes: > [I am] inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa [because] all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours—whereas all the testing says not really. He's flat out wrong about what "all the testing" says, btw. We're not just bashing someone for speaking a politically unpopul…

Why is he "flat out wrong" about the testing? African intelligence scores are much lower.

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#40

Post by seekingtruth » Fri, Dec 05, 2014, 10:03 AM UTC

czr80 wrote: post #37

seekingtruth wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That something someone says makes you feel bad or is used by others to justify ideas or actions you find loathsome does not make that person or what he said wrong. Your skin color and height are highly heritable attributes and it is by no means an outrageous assertion to state that intelligence is as well. Some estimates for heritability of intelligence are as high as 0.8. [1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritab…

Height is highly heritable. North and South Koreans are genetically the same. The average South Korean is six inches taller than the average North Korean. What does the assertion that intelligence is heritable mean to you?

What does the assertion that intelligence is heritable mean to you?

It means that if I dropped a bunch of Danes into South Korea, their children would be closer in height to their cohort in Denmark than would the children of another group of Danes dropped into North Korea. The North Korean Danes would be taller than the North Koreans and the South Korean Danes would be taller than the South Koreans.