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Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

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Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#21

Post by anigbrowl »

IvyMike wrote: post #2

Slate has a far more negative view of the auction: > Jim Watson is one of the most important scientists of the 20th century. He is also a peevish bigot. History will remember him for his co-discovery of the structure of DNA, in 1953. This week, Watson is ensuring that history, or at least the introduction to every obituary, will also remember him for being a jerk. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/scie…

Oh, like they were going to skip over his impolitic views when writing his obituary if had died up to now? Of course they wouldn't, they would have written the exact same thing minus the detail of him selling the medallion. Watson certainly does strike me as cranky, but this editorial is a pile of sanctimonious axe-grinding. I was particularly perplexed to see the author quoting E.O. Wilson to support her position, and then taking Watson to task for praising Nicholas Wade's book - which bears a glowing quote from that same E.O. Wilson on the dust jacket. Perhaps when Wilson dies she can spice up his obituary with some unflattering quote from James Watson.

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#22

Post by jamesaguilar »

pervycreeper wrote: post #19
coke12 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was not "disinterested objective investigation", it was ranting from a bigot. He's also said (among other things) that he won't hire fat people, and that women aren't as good as men at science. I think what we're seeing here is what too often happens with celebrity scientists -- they get a big head, and think they are expert on issues that they actually know nothing about.

I am condemning the reaction to the comments, not defending those comments themselves (which I have not investigated thoroughly). >I think what we're seeing here is what too often happens with celebrity scientists -- they get a big head, and think they are expert on issues that they actually know nothing about. I agree with this point (and would go further by removing the celebrity condition), and it is probably appl…

> I am condemning the reaction to the comments

Are you saying that you believe it is wrong to fire or refuse to associate with someone who says racist things? (This was the reaction to his comments.) I mean, leaving aside the legal issues of having someone in a management position saying something like that. Morally, you feel that this is wrong?

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#23

Post by kendallpark »

waps wrote: post #3

"Decoding DNA" is such a bad name. He figured out the double helix. DNA isn't decoded yet. Genes have a preamble, and postamble, and we have very little idea what they mean, we only know what compounds are "requested" by the codons in the middle of the gene. There are large "empty" parts in chromosomes (not just the telomeres), and while we know they're not optional, exactly what they're for is anyone's guess. Furthe…

> What we know as the double helix, what everybody thinks of as DNA, is really a picture of sex (or "conception" if you want to get technical. That's why we have sex of course). DNA only occurs in that form during reproduction (could be cell, or organism reproduction of course, though during cell (asexual) reproduction it's only present for a few seconds at best, during sexual reproduction it exists for a few minutes)

??? What are you talking about? DNA exists in a double helical form almost always. An exception is when it is "unzipped" for transcription or duplication. (And that's only a few nucleotides at a time.)

I have no idea how you're relating sex to the double helical structure of DNA.

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#24

Post by anigbrowl »

jjoonathan wrote: post #13
nitin_flanker wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why he is a jerk? it's his rights to decide what to do with that medal. isn't it? Why people are criticizing him is out of my head. People also call him racist because of his another discovery. I mean let him do whatever he wants to do with that. Will a medal going to carry away whatever he does for the science?

He established his reputation as a jerk independently of selling the medal. Here are some quotes: > [I am] inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa [because] all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours—whereas all the testing says not really. He's flat out wrong about what "all the testing" says, btw. We're not just bashing someone for speaking a politically unpopul…

Without endorsing his other comments, I think his comment on the Irish is entirely reasonable. I'm Irish, BTW. He later clarified these remarks somewhat; it seems his main cone of contention with the Irish person who inspired him to make the original remark was her enthusiastic support for gene patents, which he considered to be lunacy.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/tenses-diffuse-tensions...

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#25

Post by aikah »

nitin_flanker wrote: post #11
IvyMike wrote: post #2

Slate has a far more negative view of the auction: > Jim Watson is one of the most important scientists of the 20th century. He is also a peevish bigot. History will remember him for his co-discovery of the structure of DNA, in 1953. This week, Watson is ensuring that history, or at least the introduction to every obituary, will also remember him for being a jerk. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/scie…

Why he is a jerk? it's his rights to decide what to do with that medal. isn't it? Why people are criticizing him is out of my head. People also call him racist because of his another discovery. I mean let him do whatever he wants to do with that. Will a medal going to carry away whatever he does for the science?

The guy is racist period.What he says is racist,no matter how talented he is.There is no excuse for what he says ,especially as a scientist.

I'm black.to suggest that my intelligence is linked to the color of my skin is ridiculous.

And never forget that a whole bunch of white-supremacists out there are using his credentials to justify whatever violent ideology they promote,and these people don't just talk,they harass,beat and kill non white people because they consider other "races" as subhumans.Words have consequences.

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#26

Post by [deleted] »

IndianAstronaut wrote: post #17
baker0 wrote: post #8

This is a simplified argument but if you gave any adolescent group an assignment to study and argue the Talmud, then I think they'd naturally grow into inquisitive-minded individuals well versed in critical thinking. It seems clear that the intellectual success of European Jews is directly related to their cultural upbringing and academic endeavors. I doubt anyone has ever suggested otherwise. The fact that 27% of No…

Another component in intelligence may be the parasite burden people in certain regions have. http://www.economist.com/node/16479286

[deleted]

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#27

Post by seekingtruth »

[deleted] wrote: post #26
IndianAstronaut wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another component in intelligence may be the parasite burden people in certain regions have. http://www.economist.com/node/16479286

[deleted]

All I did was post a link to Jason Malloy's article "James Watson Tells the Inconvenient Truth" at the Gene Expression blog and it was flagkilled in minutes. I'd hate to see the venom that would come my way if I referenced it in real life.

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#28

Post by aikah »

pervycreeper wrote: post #5

>The sale also became symbolic of a quest for redemption after he became what he called an “unperson” in the scientific community seven years ago So much for science as a bastion of disinterested objective investigation. When a community's greatest minds (such as Perelman, Grothendieck, etc., in math, for instance) become alienated from the larger community, when conformity and publishing quantity (over quality) is r…

There is a difference between dissent and bigotry. Obviously Watson is a racist and a bigot,and is treated by his peers accordingly.

> So much for science as a bastion of disinterested objective investigation.

Nazi scientists and race theorists also thought they were "objectively investigating". You people never learn.

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#29

Post by pervycreeper »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #22
pervycreeper wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am condemning the reaction to the comments, not defending those comments themselves (which I have not investigated thoroughly). >I think what we're seeing here is what too often happens with celebrity scientists -- they get a big head, and think they are expert on issues that they actually know nothing about. I agree with this point (and would go further by removing the celebrity condition), and it is probably appl…

> I am condemning the reaction to the comments Are you saying that you believe it is wrong to fire or refuse to associate with someone who says racist things? (This was the reaction to his comments.) I mean, leaving aside the legal issues of having someone in a management position saying something like that. Morally, you feel that this is wrong?

>Are you saying that you believe it is wrong to fire or refuse to associate with someone who says racist things?

No, that is an overgeneralization of a very lazy mischaracterization of what I said. Ostracizing someone for "saying racist" things would be appropriate, depending on a number of particulars, including degree (is teaching "math" instead of "anti-racist math" itself an assertion of racism?). However, in this instance, it would require a great deal of interpretation to get a legitimate expression of bigotry out of his initial remarks. He was punished not for prejudice, but for breaking a social taboo. Same analysis applies to Shirtgate and Larry Summers on sex differences.

Re: Watson’s Nobel Prize Medal for Decoding DNA Fetches $4.1M at an Auction

#30

Post by seekingtruth »

aikah wrote: post #25
nitin_flanker wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why he is a jerk? it's his rights to decide what to do with that medal. isn't it? Why people are criticizing him is out of my head. People also call him racist because of his another discovery. I mean let him do whatever he wants to do with that. Will a medal going to carry away whatever he does for the science?

The guy is racist period.What he says is racist,no matter how talented he is.There is no excuse for what he says ,especially as a scientist. I'm black.to suggest that my intelligence is linked to the color of my skin is ridiculous. And never forget that a whole bunch of white-supremacists out there are using his credentials to justify whatever violent ideology they promote,and these people don't just talk,they harass…

That something someone says makes you feel bad or is used by others to justify ideas or actions you find loathsome does not make that person or what he said wrong. Your skin color and height are highly heritable attributes and it is by no means an outrageous assertion to state that intelligence is as well. Some estimates for heritability of intelligence are as high as 0.8. [1]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ#Estimates_of...

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