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Are You a Robot? Introducing “No CAPTCHA ReCAPTCHA”

googleonlinesecurity.blogspot.com

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Re: Are You a Robot? Introducing “No CAPTCHA ReCAPTCHA”

#431

Post by sytelus »

I suspect there is no theoretically perfect solution to CAPTCHA. Bot must get good at emulating user and software must get better at identified users. None of our interaction with computer are non-emulatable so the war would be indefinitely ongoing.

But what we can do is to make it expensive for bot to emulate user. One way to do this is creating ID system which requires some form of payment and thus creating an ID and expensive proposition. For example, Amazon can make their user account as open ID for logins and provide the target system a flag IsVerifiedPurchaser. Payments don't have be strickly in direct monetary forms also. For example, Facebook can estimate ad revenue generated by an user so far and provide some flag as to whether user is active and trustable as not being a bot.

Re: Are You a Robot? Introducing “No CAPTCHA ReCAPTCHA”

#432

Post by xnull2guest »

frostmatthew wrote: post #429
xnull1guest wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the downvoter would be kind enough to clarify why they think these comments do not contribute to the conversation.

I didn't downvote but you may want to read HN's Guidelines[1], particularly: Resist complaining about being downmodded. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

The challenge (no complaint here, though I do believe it was down(modded?) merely because of disagreement and not for relevance or quality) was meant to incite more on topic discussion.

It's interesting I've never read the guidelines before now. Was refreshing to have taken a look, although it's mostly common sense and etiquette.

Re: Are You a Robot? Introducing “No CAPTCHA ReCAPTCHA”

#433

Post by dzhiurgis »

001sky wrote: post #254
ChuckMcM wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it would be great is someone has some ideas for ways to identify humans that don't require stuff like javascript. From the perspective of a service provider (and I'm one) the bots are a scourge, they consume resources and they are clearly attempting to 'mine' the search engine for something, but they are unwilling to come forward and just ask the search provider if they would sell it to them. And since they…

Isn't this just the cost of having a "free" product? Bots are not really a problem. Its just that their traffic cannot be monetized. If you could monetize-bot traffic your problem would be solved. Or put another way, if you framed the issue as a business model one, not a technical one, it might be a useful exercise.

That's why Google needs proper API or Pro edition where you could execute proper SQL queries, etc.

Instead, Google is making their search less functional. I don't get why.

Re: Are You a Robot? Introducing “No CAPTCHA ReCAPTCHA”

#434

Post by andrewguenther »

Hoffmannnn wrote: post #347
fragmede wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a snippet of Python using the splinter library, to visit Google, type in a search query, and click 'search' (which is very Javascript heavy these days with their annoying 'instant' search). from splinter import Browser b = Browser() b.visit(' http://google.com' ) b.fill('q', 'browser automation') btn = b.find_by_name('btnG') btn.click() Not exactly 'more effort'...

Seriously? https://www.google.com/search?q=PROGRAMATICALLY_REPLACE_ME

That wasn't the point

Re: Are You a Robot? Introducing “No CAPTCHA ReCAPTCHA”

#435

Post by blalab »

yc1010 wrote: post #50

Anyone know where the documentation for the "old" recaptcha has gone? How long can we continue to use the "old" way? Seems like google want everyone to use this "new" method, which i am not so sure about yet

Here you are: https://developers.google.com/recaptcha/old/intro

Re: Are You a Robot? Introducing “No CAPTCHA ReCAPTCHA”

#438

Post by test_pls_ignore »

wingerlang wrote: post #410
username223 wrote: post #125

My guess is it's based on the tracking data they already collect on most people. I try to avoid it, so I get stuff like this: http://i.imgur.com/6mGYsav.png I have no idea what that second word is supposed to be, so if you use this, I probably won't use your site.

"unklist", although I have not idea what it means.

When a Captcha contains two words, usually there is one "real" word, and one "fake" word.

Re: Are You a Robot? Introducing “No CAPTCHA ReCAPTCHA”

#439

Post by dennisgorelik »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #290
001sky wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just the cost of having a "free" product? Bots are not really a problem. Its just that their traffic cannot be monetized. If you could monetize-bot traffic your problem would be solved. Or put another way, if you framed the issue as a business model one, not a technical one, it might be a useful exercise.

> if you framed the issue as a business model one, not > a technical one, it might be a useful exercise. That was kind of my point. Clearly most of the bots are trying to scrape my search engine for some specific data. I would (generally) be happy to just sell them that data rather than have them waste time trying to scrape us (that is the business model, which goes something like "Hey we have a copy of the big chunk…

You may try to contact scrapers through access denied page.

Did you try to explicitly state that your data is available for sale when denying access to p=300?

Re: Are You a Robot? Introducing “No CAPTCHA ReCAPTCHA”

#440

Post by tripzilch »

xtracto wrote: post #178
userbinator wrote: post #170

"If we can collect behavioural data from you, and it matches closely the behaviour of other humans, you are a human. Otherwise you're not a human." Does anyone else get that feeling from the description of what Google is doing? I've tripped their "we think you are a bot" detection filter and been presented with a captcha countless times while using complex search queries and searching for relatively obscure things, a…

> and it's frankly very insulting and rather disturbing that they think someone who inputs "unusual" search queries, according to their measure, is not human. Insulting? how is that insulting? You are entitled. You are entitled you block scripts, use Google's FREE service to perform any search query to search the web while blocking any program that attempts to identify you as not a bot. But if while using their free…

You're generalising. This argument only makes sense if Google's entire ecosystem of services was just like any other random, independent selection of sites on the Internet.

There is no equivalent to Google. Nobody else is doing this, particularly not to this extent. Not using all that computing power and AI to do it.

Yes, if Google thinks I'm a robot, I don't think it's so strange to consider that some sort of value judgement, even if it's done by a legion of machines. Definitely more so than if some random small-time website decides to make that call based on a couple of if-then statements.

Imagine if using a web service is like visiting a shop, and you get directed to the slow-checkout+ID-check lane because maybe you stammered your order, or because you know the store that well, your shopping-cart route through the aisles is deemed "too fast" (read: efficient, also avoiding the "special offers", cookies/candy/soda/junk aisles).

Amusingly, how I feel about that "judgement", varies. Sometimes it's annoying sometimes it's cool because I feel "hey I'm doing something clever that humans usually don't". Similar to how being ID-checked in a liquor store can be both annoying and flattering (depending on your age and how often it happens).

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