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My Great-Great-Aunt Discovered Francium, and It Killed Her

nytimes.com

11–20 of 20 posts

Re: My Great-Great-Aunt Discovered Francium, and It Killed Her

#11
post #7

"Perhaps the most tragic demonstration of this involved workers at the United States Radium Corporation factory in Orange, N.J., which in 1917 began hiring young women to paint watch faces with glow-in-the-dark radium paint. The workers were told that the paint was harmless and were encouraged to lick the paintbrushes to make them pointy enough to inscribe small numbers. " How awful is this ? I had never realized rad…

It's a terrible story. The victims came to be known as "the Radium Girls," and you can find a lot more on it by searching on that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls

Re: My Great-Great-Aunt Discovered Francium, and It Killed Her

#12
post #7

"Perhaps the most tragic demonstration of this involved workers at the United States Radium Corporation factory in Orange, N.J., which in 1917 began hiring young women to paint watch faces with glow-in-the-dark radium paint. The workers were told that the paint was harmless and were encouraged to lick the paintbrushes to make them pointy enough to inscribe small numbers. " How awful is this ? I had never realized rad…

It makes you wonder what we don't know about today. What are some of the things that we see with wonderment that in 50-100 years people will have the same reaction that you do with radiation today?

Re: My Great-Great-Aunt Discovered Francium, and It Killed Her

#13
post #7

"Perhaps the most tragic demonstration of this involved workers at the United States Radium Corporation factory in Orange, N.J., which in 1917 began hiring young women to paint watch faces with glow-in-the-dark radium paint. The workers were told that the paint was harmless and were encouraged to lick the paintbrushes to make them pointy enough to inscribe small numbers. " How awful is this ? I had never realized rad…

I was in a store recently in CA and I was all set to buy this beautiful silver tea platter for my partner, that is until the shop owner had told me it was made with radium. I had decided not to get it as I wasn't sure if could be potentially dangerous. I feel that I have a pretty good understanding of radiation in general(having studied physics and being aware that we're exposed to it constantly by light), but was I paranoid and overreacting?

Re: My Great-Great-Aunt Discovered Francium, and It Killed Her

#14
post #9
post #7

"Perhaps the most tragic demonstration of this involved workers at the United States Radium Corporation factory in Orange, N.J., which in 1917 began hiring young women to paint watch faces with glow-in-the-dark radium paint. The workers were told that the paint was harmless and were encouraged to lick the paintbrushes to make them pointy enough to inscribe small numbers. " How awful is this ? I had never realized rad…

The Radium Craze up to the nuclear bomb watching tourism of the Atomic Age are indeed quite bizarre to modern sensibilities. Or you could say they reflect an optimistic and romantic hope of what the future could bring, which we no longer have. You might be interested in http://www.academia.edu/3586500/Half-Lives_The_Rise_and_Fall... , which writes that > Prescribed Radithor by his doctor in 1928, Byers was dead by 19…

The Wall Street Journal published an influential article about Byers, "The Radium Water Worked Fine Until His Jaw Came Off" which can be found on p. 18 here: http://www.case.edu/affil/MeMA/MCA/11-20/1991-Nov.pdf

Re: My Great-Great-Aunt Discovered Francium, and It Killed Her

#15
post #7

"Perhaps the most tragic demonstration of this involved workers at the United States Radium Corporation factory in Orange, N.J., which in 1917 began hiring young women to paint watch faces with glow-in-the-dark radium paint. The workers were told that the paint was harmless and were encouraged to lick the paintbrushes to make them pointy enough to inscribe small numbers. " How awful is this ? I had never realized rad…

I was in a store recently in CA and I was all set to buy this beautiful silver tea platter for my partner, that is until the shop owner had told me it was made with radium. I had decided not to get it as I wasn't sure if could be potentially dangerous. I feel that I have a pretty good understanding of radiation in general(having studied physics and being aware that we're exposed to it constantly by light), but was I…

Depends on the isotopes of Radium that were in it -- 226 Ra has a half-life of 1600 years, and 228 Ra has a half-life of 5.75 years.

Without the ability to measure things, I think you made the safer choice.

Re: My Great-Great-Aunt Discovered Francium, and It Killed Her

#16
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in a store recently in CA and I was all set to buy this beautiful silver tea platter for my partner, that is until the shop owner had told me it was made with radium. I had decided not to get it as I wasn't sure if could be potentially dangerous. I feel that I have a pretty good understanding of radiation in general(having studied physics and being aware that we're exposed to it constantly by light), but was I…

Depends on the isotopes of Radium that were in it -- 226 Ra has a half-life of 1600 years, and 228 Ra has a half-life of 5.75 years. Without the ability to measure things, I think you made the safer choice.

Thanks, this definitely makes me feel better. Now that you mention it, how would you go about measuring it, anyway? Would a Geiger counter do the trick(by measuring the sievert readings) or would you have to examine it more closely with other instruments?

Re: My Great-Great-Aunt Discovered Francium, and It Killed Her

#17
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the isotopes of Radium that were in it -- 226 Ra has a half-life of 1600 years, and 228 Ra has a half-life of 5.75 years. Without the ability to measure things, I think you made the safer choice.

Thanks, this definitely makes me feel better. Now that you mention it, how would you go about measuring it, anyway? Would a Geiger counter do the trick(by measuring the sievert readings) or would you have to examine it more closely with other instruments?

For just determining if it's safe to take home - a Geiger counter will do. It needs to be able to count alpha & beta radiation, which they all pretty much do.

One would also help in checking for radioactive glaze used on Fiestaware plates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiesta_(dinnerware)#Radioactive...

Re: My Great-Great-Aunt Discovered Francium, and It Killed Her

#18
post #14
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Radium Craze up to the nuclear bomb watching tourism of the Atomic Age are indeed quite bizarre to modern sensibilities. Or you could say they reflect an optimistic and romantic hope of what the future could bring, which we no longer have. You might be interested in http://www.academia.edu/3586500/Half-Lives_The_Rise_and_Fall... , which writes that > Prescribed Radithor by his doctor in 1928, Byers was dead by 19…

The Wall Street Journal published an influential article about Byers, "The Radium Water Worked Fine Until His Jaw Came Off" which can be found on p. 18 here: http://www.case.edu/affil/MeMA/MCA/11-20/1991-Nov.pdf

Thanks for the pointer!

The comment about the jaw coming off reminds me of a story about phosphorus as a tonic:

> [I]n 1931 a Dr. G. Coltart wrote to the Lancet about an interesting case. A patient of his had come to him in 1904 complaining of feeling run down and so the doctor had prescribed a popular brand of tonic pills that contained both elemental phosphorous and strychnine but told the patient to stop taking them if the strychnine made him twitch. The patient had returned twenty-seven years later with an advanced case of phossy jw, the industrial disease that afflicted those in the match-making industrys, having taken the pills regularly during the intervening years. Asked why he had taken the pills for so long, he replied that he continued with them because they had never caused him to twitch! ("The Shocking History of Phosphorous", John Emsley, p. 58.)

The comment about the FDA reminds me of the 1937 Elixir Sulfanilamide tragedy. As the WSJ article points out, the FDA only had the power to regulate adulterants or false advertising. They only had the authority to track down the toxic Elixir Sulfanilamide because it, technically speaking, was not an elixir. Hence why they couldn't control the sales of radium water which truly did contain radium.

(With free market beliefs, the idea was that the customer should decide, not the government.)

And the speculation about the possible stimulative effect echos the 1925 publication in JAMA by Martland, et al.,at http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=238584 :

> Minute particles of the radioactive substances ... produce, for a period of time, seemingly curative or stimulative reactions, to be followed later by exhaustion and destruction of the blood producing centers.

Re: My Great-Great-Aunt Discovered Francium, and It Killed Her

#19
post #2

I thought this article was one of the best descriptions I've seen of the perils (both personal and teleological) of the scientific process. "We should celebrate scientists not solely for their accomplishments but also for their courage and the tenacity required to discover anything at all. There are brave people out there working right now. They are brave not because they are killing themselves slowly or leaping from…

"Radiation is a potent allegory for human life. Everything is always, inevitably falling apart; we are all in arrested decay. Our greatest achievements may become at best footnotes; few people remember us; we can’t know what will eventually come of our work."

And yet the human race is always, inevitably improving in every conceivable measure as a consequence of this individual sacrifice.

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