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How to Get a Quant Job in Finance

financejobs.co

21–30 of 143 posts

Re: How to Get a Quant Job in Finance

#21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why the sarcasm. Hedge funds are not banks; they live or die by the brains of the people they hire. If they perform well, they get more investors. If they fail to perform, they go bust, and noone is there to bail them out.

As in most industries, I think you are undervaluing the importance of sales. It's true that long term performance dips will cause a fund to go bust, looking at the number of funds that don't outperform (or only marginally outperform) the market, year after year, makes it obvious that sales are an important part of the hedge fund industry.

They're definitely important but hedge funds depend on investor confidence. Ours made an untimely bad decision that not only resulted in significant losses but caused investors to flee.

Sales is tied to performance. Hedge funds' customers are even more conservative than they are.

Re: How to Get a Quant Job in Finance

#22
post #11

"Hirers tend to be looking for strong programming and data management skills as much as mathematical ability" This cannot be over emphasized. You cannot just have an aptitude for math/statistics/probability. You will need to be able to write high performance production quality code.

Spot on.

I got a job in finance as a quant and spent the first year building automated processes to pull portfolio holdings data from email attachments and scrape data from a bunch of different sources.

Re: How to Get a Quant Job in Finance

#23
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why the sarcasm. Hedge funds are not banks; they live or die by the brains of the people they hire. If they perform well, they get more investors. If they fail to perform, they go bust, and noone is there to bail them out.

As in most industries, I think you are undervaluing the importance of sales. It's true that long term performance dips will cause a fund to go bust, looking at the number of funds that don't outperform (or only marginally outperform) the market, year after year, makes it obvious that sales are an important part of the hedge fund industry.

Right, but it's not sales in the sense of "lets convince stupid people to waste money by giving it to us", it's more in the sense of "trust us, we're smart, have a good strategy and good past performance". Of course, the average hedge fund under-performs the market (for a particular measure of performance), but rich people might have other investment goals (the chance of finding alpha & beating the market, diversification, negative beta (anti-cyclic returns), ...). Same as with casinos/lottery, they need little sales, people know it in average underperforms just keeping the money, but you're not gambling for the average, you're gambling for the variance.

Re: How to Get a Quant Job in Finance

#24
Having hired a lot of quants and programmers in finance I can probably give a bit of background on what to expect:

Get this book, read it and understand it.

http://www.amazon.com/Heard-Street-Quantitative-Questions-In...

Quants tend to be in 1 of 3 categories:

1) pricing quants, you work for a bank or investment house like Goldamn. You know stochastic calculus very well, you know finite differencing like the back of your hand. You'll know every way to look at a derivative product. You can program in matlab. You create the next big thing like CDO's or CDS's

If you love math, this is where you want to be.

2) Quants who trade You work at a hedge fund. You can program in python with scikit or use R. You don't know calculus maybe as well as a pricing quant but you know some area of the market much much better. You know stats like its your mother tongue.

3) Risk quant/programmer. You do modelling all day for a trader or risk manager. You can take a portfolio and model any feature that someone ask for. Var, beta, greeks, you can spit them out quickly. You know C++, excel and R. You might have been an engineer in a former life.

This is often considered the low position in the quant hierarchy. This is how some programmers break into the industry.

4) I lied there is actually special category 4). This is the professors of quants. You sit around all day and think about the next big equation, or how to model derivatives better than black scholes. If you are one of these people chances are your name is known in the industry:)

EDIT someone asked if you can do these without a math degree. The short answer is probably not. YOu'll need a math, engineering, or physics degree, unless you really are driven to learn hte math yourself.

A comp sci degree might work but you would be the exception and you'd be fighting up hill. Ask your self honestly, how many branches of mathematics have you self taught yourself and you'll get your answer. For most the answer is none, for a select few the answer is yes.

Someone asked about brain teasers. They do get asked, you have to deal with it, whining in an interview that this type of question gives no useful hiring indicator won't get you hired. I don't ask them but they are common:(

We throw around brain teasers at work during the day trying to stump each other. I guess some of it is trying to look smart. Some of it is that we just really like to dissect any problem and figure it out.

I think the biggest reason for asking brain teasers is that at a hedge fund there are no rules for how to make money, excluding legal. They want people who can think outside the box. it turns out that its really tough to test for "can the candidate think outside the box"?

Trading is a higher stress job than most other math or programming jobs, what we are trying to see is not only are you smart, but can you think on your feet and not get stressed out, because if an interview stresses you out, whats going to happens when a $50,000,000 position that should be going up starts to go down.

Are you going to complain that the model says it should go up and the market isn't being fair, or are you going to accept what's happening and get back to work? You'd be surprised at the number of people who chose option 1.

I ask a bunch of questions that some people feel are brain teasers. In between questions I'l throw out what's the square root of 225 to see how the candidate reacts. Good traders seem to be exceptional at mental math, with very, very few exceptions.

I'll also ask alot of probability questions. Get ready to know what your expected payoff is if you gamble on dice games, its basically what you do every minute of the day when trading:)

Now if you are a programmer, how do you get into the industry? You need to know stats, machine learning, and programming, really well.

And I don't mean know machine learning, like "I tool an nlp library and stiched it together to do sentiment analysis on a corpus of text". I will ask what algorithms the underlying library used. You used SVM, great talk to me about your kernel selection methods. I want to know that you understand the math, and more importantly the assumptions and limitations of the library you are using.

The reason is that when you trade on a model that is based on your machine learning, I want to know that you know when it breaks. Finance is an industry that loves to model but has crashes that are predicted to happen 1 in 1000 year events happen every 10 years.

I love helping programmers who want to become quants get into the industry. Please feel free to ask if you have questions!

Re: How to Get a Quant Job in Finance

#26

Interesting! Thanks a lot for writing/posting this. I enjoyed the read. One thing I had to chuckle at was this: >Mark Joshi obtained a B.A. in mathematics (top of year) from the University of Oxford in 1990, and a Ph.D. in pure mathematics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 1994. He was an assistant lecturer in the department of pure mathematics and mathematical statistics at Cambridge University from…

Pure math to head of QR risk management over the period when RBS took on insane leverage and relied on wholesale lending markets staying at low rates forever. An assumption that was incorrect and led to RBS being bailed out by UK tax-payers.

Good work fella.

Re: How to Get a Quant Job in Finance

#28
post #11

"Hirers tend to be looking for strong programming and data management skills as much as mathematical ability" This cannot be over emphasized. You cannot just have an aptitude for math/statistics/probability. You will need to be able to write high performance production quality code.

95% of quant code is not only fails to achieve low-latency, it's utterly incorrect, unmaintainable and frankly deranged.

Re: How to Get a Quant Job in Finance

#29

Interesting! Thanks a lot for writing/posting this. I enjoyed the read. One thing I had to chuckle at was this: >Mark Joshi obtained a B.A. in mathematics (top of year) from the University of Oxford in 1990, and a Ph.D. in pure mathematics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 1994. He was an assistant lecturer in the department of pure mathematics and mathematical statistics at Cambridge University from…

Pure math to head of QR risk management over the period when RBS took on insane leverage and relied on wholesale lending markets staying at low rates forever. An assumption that was incorrect and led to RBS being bailed out by UK tax-payers. Good work fella.

head of quantitative research = spending all your time on pricing models for complex derivatives. it's unlikely he had anything to do with RBS's overall financial strategy

Re: How to Get a Quant Job in Finance

#30
post #2

" Brainteasers are popular." Can somebody explain why? I'm genuinely interested, since in software dev interviews we see less and less brainteasers...

I work as a quant and I like to give brainteasers in interview. It definitely does not tell me if someone will necessarily be good at his job or a good fit for the team, but it does help me rule out a lot of potential candidates. These are not very tricky brainteasers that depend on getting a particular insight. They're actually somewhat pedestrian. However, if you can't manage to competently work out a simple, well…

Can you give an example or two of the more complex issues you deal with?

I honestly have no idea.

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