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Immigration is about talent, not costs

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Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#171

Post by zerr »

manticore_alpha wrote: post #86

Look HNers, let's be honest with each other. There's a lot of H1B's on here. You have friends overseas who you want to see succeed in the Bay Area. In my experience at many tech companies in the Bay Area, H1B Visas exist for one reason, and one reason only - to get skilled engineering/STEM labor -- and to exploit connections (primarily Indian/Pakistani) among these workers to continue to get cheap labor. It absolutel…

Fully agree. That's why H1B's should have a significant minimum requirement for the salary (depending on place). I'm in eastern Europe and I wouldn't even remotely consider Bay Area jobs with less than 250K annual income (base salary + bonuses). Even for other places, it shouldn't be far from that number for me to decide to relocate to US...

So yes, there is a shortage of talent who are willing to work for cheap.

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#172

Post by ForHackernews »

hnnewguy wrote: post #98
manticore_alpha wrote: post #86

Look HNers, let's be honest with each other. There's a lot of H1B's on here. You have friends overseas who you want to see succeed in the Bay Area. In my experience at many tech companies in the Bay Area, H1B Visas exist for one reason, and one reason only - to get skilled engineering/STEM labor -- and to exploit connections (primarily Indian/Pakistani) among these workers to continue to get cheap labor. It absolutel…

> There's absolutely no talent shortage in the Bay Area, provided you can pay But this is precisely what defines an economic shortage. There's no shortage of anything , if the price offered is right. I wonder if the discrepancy between supply and demand for labour in the Valley has to do with the fact that, unlike most other industries[1], so many companies aren't making money, and hence can't pay, but still demand m…

> so many companies aren't making money, and hence can't pay, but still demand much labour?

Maybe most of those companies shouldn't exist, then. Isn't that how capitalism is supposed to work?

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#173

Post by bioskope »

brandonl222 wrote: post #165
jarjoura wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a hiring manager, I can promise you that your generalizations are sweeping and full of misplaced emotional verbiage. Since it is my job to hire the best candidate and even though my company gives me access to a world of engineers, I will still try to find the best with the least amount of friction. That means, someone who already lives here and can start as soon as possible with the least amount of demands. Talent…

Do you really think your situation represents the majority of H1B employers?

Absolutely, it does

http://www.h1bwage.com/

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#174

Post by potatoyogurt »

pauleastlund wrote: post #50
teacup50 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of them are worthless; of any given intern class at a first tier technology company (e.g., Apple), only ~1-5% will actually be offered a full time job. Those 1% are worth every penny, but you simply don't know who they are until you give the entire intern class the opportunity to demonstrate their abilities.

In my experience at Google, far, far more than 1-5% were offered full time jobs. Maybe my group just had above-average interns? But I don't think so. The intern hiring bar was fairly high.

Yeah, this is silly. The point of having interns is like 90% finding and vetting new employees. Certainly, not everyone will be offered a job, but if less than 5% of a company's interns are receiving offers, there is something seriously wrong with the company's intern selection process.

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#175

Post by rdlecler1 »

As a Canadian, I'm all for a better immigration system. I think it makes the US stronger, but going on AngelList I see a lot of talented engineers. I have difficulty believing that Google, Facebook, and Amazon are struggling to find talent. Immigration would help startups though.

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#176

Post by ryandrake »

x0x0 wrote: post #77
gnufied wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think by and large most engineers understand what the game is and where most H1Bs are going. What author seems to be saying is - status-quo is not a solution. Is there a shortage of good engineering talent(I am not talking about bottom 50%), but top 20%? I think answer is emphatically yes - worldwide. Has US benefited from those top 20% who have managed to migrate to US? It would be foolish to say no. Lastly, this…

There is no shortage of talent; there's a shortage of talent that wants to earn $100 - $130k (plus 0.2% of an A-round company! Golden paper handcuffs! Whoo!) to live in sf, an area probably more expensive than Manhattan. Without being Manhattan, or having decent public services. Do we have a shortage of talent of the type I just described? Emphatically yes. Does that mean there is in any way a shortage? Emphatically…

In my view, anyone who tries to argue that there is a "shortage" of tech should disclose the compensation package they are offering for the tech positions they are trying to fill.

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#177

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #152
codegeek wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My parents didn't leave their lives half a world away to come here for the weather." Agreed. They probably came here for a better life and opportunity just like most immigrants. What is your point though ? Your parents immigrated here and now you think " immigration is already too much". I am not attacking you personally but trying to understand your point. What is this culture and institution that you talk about ?

My parents came here for various reasons, but one of the straws that broke the camel's back, so to speak, was my dad giving in to paying a bribe just to get telephone service installed at his house. Where I come from, Bangladesh, that is just how you do things. And the institutions you have to deal with were created by people who think that's okay. I think non-immigrants take for granted how amazing, and fragile, it…

[deleted]

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#178

Post by 300bps »

DigitalSea wrote: post #106

The experience for getting a working visa in the US is absolutely atrocious, and let me preface this with the fact I am Australian and Australia offers an E3 visa which allows you to work in the US indefinitely for the sponsoring company. It doesn't have the same issues as a H1-B visa (lottery, restrictions on when you can apply), but offers just as much flexibility and power. I am currently a remote worker for a US…

First you said:

it is not that they are looking for "cheap labour"

Then you said:

The company is based in Seattle and they are facing increasing competition from Microsoft and Amazon mostly who are sucking up all of the talent in the area, whilst other smaller startups and companies struggle to hire people because the bigger companies are offering more money.

Your second statement contradicts your first statement. What you're saying is that there are people to hire but your company isn't willing to pay them the market rate, so they are turning to foreign workers.

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#179

Post by deskamess »

lnkmails wrote: post #157
manticore_alpha wrote: post #86

Look HNers, let's be honest with each other. There's a lot of H1B's on here. You have friends overseas who you want to see succeed in the Bay Area. In my experience at many tech companies in the Bay Area, H1B Visas exist for one reason, and one reason only - to get skilled engineering/STEM labor -- and to exploit connections (primarily Indian/Pakistani) among these workers to continue to get cheap labor. It absolutel…

From the other side, I see a lot of over paid "local" workers that spend a lot of time talking and doing no work. Why don't you take your honesty to your bosses and tell them that they are abusing the H1B system to save money? This is my biggest problem with honesty that comes with anonymity. Look, I am not saying there is no abuse of H1B. That is not the government's problem nor it is the problem of the immigrants.…

If the market is willing to pay you $X (at most) then that is your market value. Not more, not less. If you see someone getting paid $X, you need to try and figure out how he/she got there. Why put your efforts/thoughts into how you can drive down that persons salary?

There is no such thing as over paid. Just what you are willing to accept given your constraints. With the current H-1B system there are constraints. In particular, job mobility, that restricts you from easily taking a higher offer (the legal hoops that you and the future employer have to go through is a burden).

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#180

Post by codegeek »

rayiner wrote: post #152
codegeek wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My parents didn't leave their lives half a world away to come here for the weather." Agreed. They probably came here for a better life and opportunity just like most immigrants. What is your point though ? Your parents immigrated here and now you think " immigration is already too much". I am not attacking you personally but trying to understand your point. What is this culture and institution that you talk about ?

My parents came here for various reasons, but one of the straws that broke the camel's back, so to speak, was my dad giving in to paying a bribe just to get telephone service installed at his house. Where I come from, Bangladesh, that is just how you do things. And the institutions you have to deal with were created by people who think that's okay. I think non-immigrants take for granted how amazing, and fragile, it…

"But I don't want to have so many immigrants that we can't turn them all into Americans. I want immigrants who respect womens' rights, consider racists to be social pariahs, find corruption to be intolerable, embrace gays, etc"

If I understand you correctly, you are making the assumption that things like respecting women's rights etc. are primarily an American virtue and not as much with other cultures ? I would agree with you generally that America is probably the most open country even with its challenges but I am not sure if your point is relevant in the context of immigration. Here is why. Immigrants come to America for many reasons. Your dad's was not wanting to bribe for every little thing and probably many other factors like that. But in my experience, most immigrants are just looking for better opportunity and america provides that. It is hard to objectively quantify their virtues, beliefs etc.

So what I am getting at is that your point seems ok in theory but very difficult to implement in reality. If you want to restrict immigration, it certainly cannot be done based on perceived virtues. Plenty of immigrants assimilate in the local culture while plenty preserve their own at the same time. Nothing wrong with both as long you are not hurting anyone. In fact, what makes America special is you could look different, speak different, eat different but at the end of day, you are American as long as you have some common core beliefs including hard work, take nothing for granted, the drive to succeed and the perception of self independence.

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