Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Immigration is about talent, not costs

aerofs.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 644 posts

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#11

Post by yurisagalov »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #2

For "real" technology companies like AeroFS, that use a small fraction of the H-1B quota, it's about talent. For body shops like Infosys, WiPro, Tata, etc that use up the vast majority of the H-1B visas it's absolutely about cost.

I agree that what's happening with Infosys/Tata/WiPro requires a serious look. I also think that today demand for high skilled workers far outstrips the 65,000 quota that Infosys/Tata/WiPro abuse. We should be addressing both, and fixing both. I don't know how to address the Infosys/Tata/WiPro problem, but I do believe that not increasing the H-1B quota is not doing anyone else any favors, either.

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#12

Post by bokonist »

Seems like the sensible solution would be to auction off the immigration quota slots. Decide on some number of business/talent based visas to be issued each year. Then do a rolling auction of the visas. If a person gets a visa, comes to America, but then does not like their job and goes home, the company gets a prorated refund. If the person stays more than five years, they get a green card automatically and are free to work wherever they please or start their own company. If a Facebook or YC want the talent, they can bid up the price and pay for the talent. The government doesn't have to worry about in which professions there is a "scarcity" or a talent shortage. If there is a real shortage of valued workers, businesses will bid for visas for those types of workers. It will work itself out. But this system will prevent the body shops from racing to the bottom by using H1-B's as disposable indentured servants.

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#13

Post by Spooky23 »

My grandparents were all immigrants who didn't need to jump through hoops to come in. IMO, this should still be possible. I think we should have a open lottery that meets 95% of immigration demand, and have some sort of competitive/fast-track process for skilled workers that would weed out the bodyshops.

That said, this post is crafted marketing nonsense.

For example, a statement like this from a company founder is ridiculous: "In fact, the restrictions on H-1B visas make that entire topic moot since highly skilled talent must meet strict wage requirements set by the US government based on prevailing wages in the county you're hiring the person into, in the skill-level and profession of that person."

Let's be real here. Every big bank and insurance company has battalions of "Senior Programmer/Analysts" churning out J2EE for $35k/year or less. "Prevailing wage" is a term of art that doesn't mean what it sounds like it ought to.

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#14

Post by starfishjenga »

If this guy is starved for talent couldn't he just increase what he's willing to pay and steal people from other tech companies? (There are a number of people who would be willing to jump ship for the right #s I'm sure.) This seems to be where BusinessWeek is correct. At the end of the day engineers should be getting paid more.

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#15

Post by supercanuck »

Funny, I only see 3 companies he listed in the Top 100 on this particular list:

http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2014-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx

Could that be maybe the H1-B's are not going to the right companies?

Why are interns making more in salary than the H1-B's?

The issue I have is not with Immigration, it is with the H1-B System. Because of the limited supply of H1-B's and the nature of them to tie the visa holder to an employer with the carrot of a green card (some day), is ripe for abuse by suppressing wages, which appears to be exactly what is happening. The supply of H1-B's is not necessarily the problem, it is the nature that they tie them to a particular employer. The offer of a "green card" some day, has value or acts as a bonus that citizens cannot compete with, so H1-B's salaries can be lower because the promise of a green card has value.

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#16

Post by hackerboos »

bokonist wrote: post #12

Seems like the sensible solution would be to auction off the immigration quota slots. Decide on some number of business/talent based visas to be issued each year. Then do a rolling auction of the visas. If a person gets a visa, comes to America, but then does not like their job and goes home, the company gets a prorated refund. If the person stays more than five years, they get a green card automatically and are free…

>Seems like the sensible solution would be to auction off the immigration quota slots

Sounds like a great way to skew immigration in favour of big business and completely screw over start ups and SMBs.

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#17

Post by lmg643 »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #2

For "real" technology companies like AeroFS, that use a small fraction of the H-1B quota, it's about talent. For body shops like Infosys, WiPro, Tata, etc that use up the vast majority of the H-1B visas it's absolutely about cost.

Agreed. It's strange to read these kinds of articles. The author doesn't seem to realize that he is describing his own personal preferences, and not anything about society at large. All you need to do is look at the top recipients of visas and you will understand what the game is.

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#18

Post by tmorton »

hackerboos wrote: post #16
bokonist wrote: post #12

Seems like the sensible solution would be to auction off the immigration quota slots. Decide on some number of business/talent based visas to be issued each year. Then do a rolling auction of the visas. If a person gets a visa, comes to America, but then does not like their job and goes home, the company gets a prorated refund. If the person stays more than five years, they get a green card automatically and are free…

>Seems like the sensible solution would be to auction off the immigration quota slots Sounds like a great way to skew immigration in favour of big business and completely screw over start ups and SMBs.

Pricing a scarce resource doesn't "screw over" anyone.

Re: Immigration is about talent, not costs

#19

Post by anthony_d »

yurisagalov wrote: post #10
selmnoo wrote: post #3

> Just a few hours later, Vox published an article titled These tech interns are probably making more than you are where they shared a tweet showcasing candid salaries at various tech companies, some larger, some smaller: That is a kind of a bullshit argument though isn't it, that "hey look, the interns (supposedly half-able, incompetent newbies) are getting paid so high!! We have such wonderful salaries in tech!" It…

actually, I am not claiming at all that interns are half-able, incompetent newbies. Some of our best work has been done by people interning with us, and I think our past interns will vouch for that. That being said, it is true that intern salaries are generally lower than full time salaries (although the gap is shrinking, IMO), and intern salaries are good indicators of full time salaries in tech.

The thing is that a highly paid intern in no way refutes the argument that immigration is about cheap labor. The argument is that 1) because domestic labor is expensive companies want to increase H1B's as a way to decrease cost 2) if you didn't mind paying more you could find domestic labor. The highly paid intern is an point in favor of #1.

Nothing in the article disputes the basic economics of #2. Sure there is competition for talent, there is competition in every facet of business. The trick is to find the ratio between how much value a business extracts from a resource and how much value the business provides to the resource; that ratio needs to stay above 1.

Post reply on HN