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Richard Feynman and the Connection Machine (1989)

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Re: Richard Feynman and the Connection Machine (1989)

#21

Post by gohrt »

Jun8 wrote: post #15

"The charming side of Richard helped people forgive him for his uncharming characteristics. For example, in many ways Richard was a sexist. Whenever it came time for his daily bowl of soup he would look around for the nearest "girl" and ask if she would fetch it to him. It did not matter if she was the cook, an engineer, or the president of the company. I once asked a female engineer who had just been a victim of thi…

However, much like the thousands of people who emulate the Steve Jobs misanthropy but don't emulate his great vision and talent, thousands of people emulate Feynman's sexism but not his genius and teaching.

Re: Richard Feynman and the Connection Machine (1989)

#22

Post by stevenbedrick »

[deleted] wrote: post #19
stevenbedrick wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than thinking about it as a "counterpoint," I think it's an excellent illustration of the fact that people are complicated, and are capable of simultaneously being sexist pigs in some ways and progressive and gifted educators in others. Something that I think really complicates these kinds of discussions is our propensity to think of people in zero-sum and reductionist ways. Examples: "I don't care if you land…

[deleted]

In "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!", there's an essay entitled "You Just Ask Them?" in which Feynman relates some truly hair-raising (in a bad way) stories about his interactions with and attitudes towards women. A quick Google search will bring up plenty of commentary on the essay, from a variety of perspectives (some of which, unfortunately, seem to view the essay as inspirational and validating, rather than as alarming).

If you haven't read "Surely You're Joking...", you absolutely should- most of the essays are not hair-raising in a bad way, and as a whole it's a wonderful collection. Furthermore, as abhorrent as I find "You Just Ask Them", I think that if one is interested in learning about Richard Feynman, one should learn about him as a complete (and very flawed) individual. The (very ugly) aspect of his personality reflected in "You Just Ask Him" was just as real as the aspect of his personality that (as reported in the original linked article) was able to connect well with a female student who had felt ignored or belittled by other physicists.

For me, that contradictory nature is part of why I find Feynman to be such an interesting historical figure.

Re: Richard Feynman and the Connection Machine (1989)

#23

Post by chicofarm »

Jun8 wrote: post #15

"The charming side of Richard helped people forgive him for his uncharming characteristics. For example, in many ways Richard was a sexist. Whenever it came time for his daily bowl of soup he would look around for the nearest "girl" and ask if she would fetch it to him. It did not matter if she was the cook, an engineer, or the president of the company. I once asked a female engineer who had just been a victim of thi…

Some girls may enjoy fetching a coup of soup and some girls don't.

What is wrong with requesting girls to do that? Maybe he just find them charming, cute, enjoy the interaction with them. It is always the person who is being asked's responsibility to accept, deny or counter offer the request.

Asking a girl to get soup for you does not make one a sexist pig!

I do find these political correctness is being taking way out of hand for political reasons to dived up groups.

Re: Richard Feynman and the Connection Machine (1989)

#24

Post by 3beard »

chicofarm wrote: post #23
Jun8 wrote: post #15

"The charming side of Richard helped people forgive him for his uncharming characteristics. For example, in many ways Richard was a sexist. Whenever it came time for his daily bowl of soup he would look around for the nearest "girl" and ask if she would fetch it to him. It did not matter if she was the cook, an engineer, or the president of the company. I once asked a female engineer who had just been a victim of thi…

Some girls may enjoy fetching a coup of soup and some girls don't. What is wrong with requesting girls to do that? Maybe he just find them charming, cute, enjoy the interaction with them. It is always the person who is being asked's responsibility to accept, deny or counter offer the request. Asking a girl to get soup for you does not make one a sexist pig! I do find these political correctness is being taking way ou…

What's wrong by it is that some people are genuinly offended, insulted or even frightened by such a direct approach and you really have no way of knowing this before you try it.

Re: Richard Feynman and the Connection Machine (1989)

#25

Post by Retric »

stevenbedrick wrote: post #17
Jun8 wrote: post #15

"The charming side of Richard helped people forgive him for his uncharming characteristics. For example, in many ways Richard was a sexist. Whenever it came time for his daily bowl of soup he would look around for the nearest "girl" and ask if she would fetch it to him. It did not matter if she was the cook, an engineer, or the president of the company. I once asked a female engineer who had just been a victim of thi…

Rather than thinking about it as a "counterpoint," I think it's an excellent illustration of the fact that people are complicated, and are capable of simultaneously being sexist pigs in some ways and progressive and gifted educators in others. Something that I think really complicates these kinds of discussions is our propensity to think of people in zero-sum and reductionist ways. Examples: "I don't care if you land…

I think the contradiction is most _ist people think group X in less capable of some activity. So, someone that says you’re an intelligent and capable person, but cultural norms let me dump demeaning task Y on you is not really the same thing. The closest neutral example I can think of is how the new person in a group is often dumped on.

Re: Richard Feynman and the Connection Machine (1989)

#26

Post by willurd »

dghughes wrote: post #12
willurd wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An amateur isn't really someone who knows nothing about a particular subject. On the contrary, every amateur by definition knows at least something about their subject matter. An amateur is simply someone who engages that subject in a non-paid capacity, for personal enjoyment or some other reason. Indeed, amateurs can be, and many are, subject matter experts.

Similar to what I was thinking amateur doesn't mean stupid or lazy it just means someone who has little or no experience (yet) but has an interest in the subject.

I wouldn't even go this far. An amateur can have tons of experience, and even be an expert in their field. It's true, many people use the word "amateur" to mean unskilled, beginner, etc, but in actuality it's simply someone who engages in some activity for something other than payment. ("Amateur" means "lover of" in Old French, apparently.)
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