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EU VAT rules make EU startups uncompetitive in a global market

rachelandrew.co.uk

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Re: EU VAT rules make EU startups uncompetitive in a global market

#61

Post by amirmc »

vixen99 wrote: post #53
amirmc wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment doesn't add very much to the discussion. I could argue that most software engineers have never had a 'real' job either. Tax across the EU is an important concern, given how large companies can position themselves to take full advantage of differences. People should be thinking about this. Unfortunately, the law is a rather blunt instrument and there's a valid argument that current changes hurt small comp…

I disagree; there is a very fundamental problem around when unelected (unsackable) comfortably situated people with golden pensions who do not create wealth, sit in rooms devising intricate schemes for taxing wealth creators and moreover are completely isolated from the effects of their actions. And the problem is exacerbated by the absence of a signed-off auditors' account for the EU over something like fifteen year…

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. I never made any claims that supported (or opposed) the current EU set up. I merely pointed out that the comment I replied to added nothing constructive to the conversation and that Tax is an important issue.

I'm not even sure what argument you're trying to make as it simply comes across as a rant. Wealth creators should decide tax policy? Career politicians are career politicians? Do you actually know how such policies are put together and the processes/consultation they go through? I have no idea so I'm not going to form a strong opinion either way.

Re: EU VAT rules make EU startups uncompetitive in a global market

#62

Post by tonyedgecombe »

danmaz74 wrote: post #59

I'm a big fan of EU integration, but sometimes the EU Parliament shows a complete lack of understanding about the needs of small online companies (including startups). I understand pretty well that the goal is to stop Amaon et al to game our VAT system, but you can't impose the same kind of complication to small businesses.

I think they do understand but the pressure to increase revenue outweighs those concerns.

Re: EU VAT rules make EU startups uncompetitive in a global market

#64

Post by vixen99 »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #62
danmaz74 wrote: post #59

I'm a big fan of EU integration, but sometimes the EU Parliament shows a complete lack of understanding about the needs of small online companies (including startups). I understand pretty well that the goal is to stop Amaon et al to game our VAT system, but you can't impose the same kind of complication to small businesses.

I think they do understand but the pressure to increase revenue outweighs those concerns.

Indeed - they have to cover this for instance. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11255493...

However I understand that some feel that drawing attention to the processes and construction of the EU is irrelevant and is a rant - the latter retort being an effective conversation stopper.

Re: EU VAT rules make EU startups uncompetitive in a global market

#65

Post by Taxamo »

derickr wrote: post #56
Taxamo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the key elements of the new rules is that merchants must collect two pieces of non-conflicting evidence. And the onus of proof is on the merchants' shoulders. They must keep searching until they have two pieces of evidence that do not conflict. If IP address, for example, conflicts with cc billing address then more evidence will be required from the customer.

And on top of that, you can be audited by each EU country's tax authority as well... something I have not seen too many people worried about. I think it's an important thing that is being overlooked.

Potential audits will be co-ordinated between EU member states. For example, if an audit of a UK merchant is sought then the relevant EU tax authority (for argument's sake Spain) will have to go through HMRC first. Check out the answer to Q10 here: http://www.taxamo.com/new-eu-vat-rules-q-a/

Re: EU VAT rules make EU startups uncompetitive in a global market

#66

Post by NicoJuicy »

yc1010 wrote: post #22
acd wrote: post #10

The problem is that some countries are within the European union but are tax havens. Luxemburg is such a country with 15% VAT but most other countries have 20%+ VAT. The solution should be to have one VAT level which is higher than 15% and the same in the whole union.

Won't happen 1. Countries like UK where the EU is constantly demonized in the tabloids (and hence in the mind of average person who reads this trash) would have their populations screaming murder, hell there already strong calls to leave the EU 2. Countries like Ireland have increased VAT to insane levels as a revenue raising measure to pay for huge deficits run up by banking fiascos and huge welfare/healthcare commi…

Let them leave the EU, without such a big nation they are nothing (being financial capital of the world won't change much for the EU, but a lot for the UK).

UK needs EU, weither they like it or not.

Re: EU VAT rules make EU startups uncompetitive in a global market

#67

Post by glomph »

yc1010 wrote: post #24
derickr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Amazon do not abuse it, they just run shop from an EU country with low VAT rate (Luxembourg) last I checked." They "abuse" it from the point of view from the countries where they don't pay the VAT.... f.e. the UK would like Amazon to pay VAT in the UK, and not in Luxembourg. So this new law is meant to prevent that, but at the same time waltz over small companies.

UK politicians (judging by recent headlines) also want to leave the EU, or at least threatening to do so if they don't get their way. They might like/want X but they will have to negotiate and endup with X-Y or nothing, since negotiating something as important as VAT while threatening to leave the club is politically counterproductive.

They are only threatening because the election is coming up and an anti EU party got a surprising amount of votes in the EU election (still not that many in real terms).

Re: EU VAT rules make EU startups uncompetitive in a global market

#68

Post by wbond »

derickr wrote: post #28
vixen99 wrote: post #4

'If the customers IP address and billing address conflict you are going to have to halt the purchase unless ...'. So how do I, as a customer, go about buying something online while not at home? The 'unless' doesn't appear to unravel the mystery.

You can buy from a non-EU company just fine. But other than that, there are other allowed bits of information to proof country of consumption, it's just going to be a pain to implement in your check-out process :-/

Well, only if they are breaking EU member state laws. As of 2003 non-EU companies need to charge VAT also.

Re: EU VAT rules make EU startups uncompetitive in a global market

#69

Post by derickr »

wbond wrote: post #68
derickr wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy from a non-EU company just fine. But other than that, there are other allowed bits of information to proof country of consumption, it's just going to be a pain to implement in your check-out process :-/

Well, only if they are breaking EU member state laws. As of 2003 non-EU companies need to charge VAT also.

Certainly, but I doubt it's very enforcable.

Re: EU VAT rules make EU startups uncompetitive in a global market

#70

Post by tonyedgecombe »

vixen99 wrote: post #64
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they do understand but the pressure to increase revenue outweighs those concerns.

Indeed - they have to cover this for instance. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11255493... However I understand that some feel that drawing attention to the processes and construction of the EU is irrelevant and is a rant - the latter retort being an effective conversation stopper.

Except VAT isn't paid to the EU so it won't cover that hole (if it exists). The pressure is from nation states that want the VAT revenue.
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