Java for Everything • Hacker News Board

Re: Java for Everything

#31

Post by fenesiistvan » Sun, Nov 30, 2014, 9:30 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #29

fenesiistvan wrote: post #26

Java is perfect also for client side. We have a client app (a complex VoIP softphone) with different codebase for all platforms (C++ for windows, java for android, ObjectC for iOS). Right now we are in the way to reduce all this in one single codebase written in Java and the user interface in html/css/javascript, so the user interface is always running in a webview. -Java for windows desktop (there are pretty install…

On mobile devices the issue is Oracle dropping the ball and leaving to third parties (RoboVM, CodenameOne,...) the work of providing JVM implementations. This on iOS, still no story on Windows Phone, which actually happens to be over iOS on some European countries.

On Android you already have java :)

The big question is iOS for which there is no mature tool yet. hopefully j2objc will be enough.

Windows phone ...i think that we will wait to see a higher market share before to dig into it

Re: Java for Everything

#32

Post by pjmlp » Sun, Nov 30, 2014, 9:31 PM UTC

frowaway001 wrote: post #16

justinsb wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find Java much more pleasant without Spring; I much prefer Jetty+Jersey+Guava+Guice. It sounds like that's pretty similar to how you're using Scala.

I think the difference is that stuff is less hastily cobbled together. People use additional libraries because they add value, not because they paper over ugliness and holes of existing libraries. Scala feels "designed", while Java feels "evolved".

Yet I have 99% probabilities that my next JVM gig will be Java than Scala, as very few customers ask for Scala skills on their Request For Proposals.

Re: Java for Everything

#33

Post by wellpast » Sun, Nov 30, 2014, 9:33 PM UTC

fenesiistvan wrote: post #26

Java is perfect also for client side. We have a client app (a complex VoIP softphone) with different codebase for all platforms (C++ for windows, java for android, ObjectC for iOS). Right now we are in the way to reduce all this in one single codebase written in Java and the user interface in html/css/javascript, so the user interface is always running in a webview. -Java for windows desktop (there are pretty install…

For development speed and code maintenance, this is ideal. Your team only needs to master one language and its set of tools and libraries.

You are pinioned by this choice on some practical levels. Mainly, some users and use cases demand the speed and lightweight user-experience of native apps. The native-vs-[java] experience is typically quite noticeable on all the platforms you've mentioned -- desktop, web, and mobile.

Re: Java for Everything

#34

Post by freshflowers » Sun, Nov 30, 2014, 9:33 PM UTC

The same argument can be made for any mature language with a solid ecosystem of tools and libraries.

Except the part about scalability, that's just BS. It has little to do with language and is all about architecture. Sure, at some point language can help you squeeze every ounce of performance out of the hardware (although my money would not be on Java for that), but that's only in cases where either performance is critical or the scale is so huge that saving on hardware makes a big difference.

Re: Java for Everything

#35

Post by drivingmenuts » Sun, Nov 30, 2014, 9:34 PM UTC

fenesiistvan wrote: post #26

Java is perfect also for client side. We have a client app (a complex VoIP softphone) with different codebase for all platforms (C++ for windows, java for android, ObjectC for iOS). Right now we are in the way to reduce all this in one single codebase written in Java and the user interface in html/css/javascript, so the user interface is always running in a webview. -Java for windows desktop (there are pretty install…

> Java is perfect also for client side.

Unless you want it to look totally native client-side. The extra effort required to make a Java app look platform native is something that (near as I can tell) no one has ever attempted.

Re: Java for Everything

#36

Post by exabrial » Sun, Nov 30, 2014, 9:35 PM UTC

If you're actually using good tools (Something like IntelliJ or Eclipse, and something like Maven or Gradle), and you use sane variable and function names (business oriented instead of tech oriented) verbosity is one of the worst arguments against Java.

The verbosity, static typing, etc, of Java contributes information to the "next guy" about developer intent and is incredibly valuable.

Re: Java for Everything

#37

Post by einrealist » Sun, Nov 30, 2014, 9:35 PM UTC

sgt wrote: post #24

minthd wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just use Groovy for everything instead of java ?

Speaking of - how is Groovy doing these days? I looked at the Groovy webpage and I saw ads splattered here and there - never a good sign, I also see that the mailing lists are pretty quiet. Is Groovy dying?

Whether Groovy is dying depends on how other languages do (like Javascript or JRuby).

Groovy has found its niches and will not die soon. For instance, Gradle is built around it or Jetbrains is using it building IDEs like IntelliJ.

The ads are probably helping to finance some of the codehaus infrastructure.

Re: Java for Everything

#38

Post by exabrial » Sun, Nov 30, 2014, 9:36 PM UTC

CSDude wrote: post #10

I cannot keep my sanity when I use dynamic languages in fairly big projects. I just cannot organize my code and all the functionality good. So, I looked at the options at Java and most of them looked either very complicated(Spring) or insufficient. I am developing a very simple framework, insipred from Sparkjava and Play Framework: https://github.com/mustafaakin/WebOM It basically maps either HTTP requests or Websock…

Try out CDI!

Re: Java for Everything

#39

Post by mercurial » Sun, Nov 30, 2014, 9:36 PM UTC

CSDude wrote: post #10

I cannot keep my sanity when I use dynamic languages in fairly big projects. I just cannot organize my code and all the functionality good. So, I looked at the options at Java and most of them looked either very complicated(Spring) or insufficient. I am developing a very simple framework, insipred from Sparkjava and Play Framework: https://github.com/mustafaakin/WebOM It basically maps either HTTP requests or Websock…

I'm not sure what you're trying to do. If you're talking about dependency injection: 1) be aware that you're ditching some safety by relying on it 2) look at Guava

Re: Java for Everything

#40

Post by lkesteloot » Sun, Nov 30, 2014, 9:36 PM UTC

It's not so much that Java is great at everything. It's more like it doesn't suck at anything. Every other language has, somewhere, a deal-breaker for some particular use. I've not found one for Java. And Java's biggest downside, frankly, is that it hasn't attracted fresh young talent in a while, so it doesn't have really hot frameworks and libraries.