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Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

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Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#161

Post by decasteve »

radva42 wrote: post #54

I have been practicing mindfulness meditation for the last 14 months - 30 minutes, everyday and I have to say that it has been virtually the most important skill that I have picked up. Because it's essentailly that - a skill. I was very stressed and the anxiety started to affect virtually every aspect of my life. My family wanted me to seek professional help (take pills), but I decided to try to take care of it mysel…

> Then I had to force myself to ignore the distrating thought and pay attention to my breathing. It was really hard in the beginning and my sessions lasted usually 15 minutes max.

One thing I recommend is persevering through the "difficult" meditations. It's about being alert and aware, not about being calm and relaxed. Recognize the "distracting" thoughts and let them go each time they arise, don't continue the conversation with those thoughts. Go back to your breathing and just sitting there. Some days those distracting thoughts come more than others, even after 10 years of meditating.

When I met Thich Nhat Hanh in 2005 he said these difficult meditations can be the most rewarding.

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#162

Post by wpietri »

byEngineer wrote: post #152
wpietri wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. One of the smartest things I heard is from Huston Smith. Somebody asked him the relationship between religion and spirituality. He said, "Religion gives spirituality historical traction." I'm pretty antireligious, so I get why bobsgame was creeped out by the historical-traction aspects of their practices. (People tried to force me to be Christian in my teens, so I've got a bucket of fuck-you ready whenever I fe…

So you said fuck off to christianity only to become Buddhist cult member? How typical of leftist lemmings from HN forum!

Setting aside the large dose of crazy:

My issue isn't with Christianity; it's with the people who tried to bully me into becoming a Christian.

My interest in Buddhism is in the philosophy and certain of the techniques. I have no interest in the religious aspects of it.

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#163

Post by wpietri »

colechristensen wrote: post #147
wpietri wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's basically the same reason people shouldn't sign up for marathons as their first race: most people aren't prepared. That it worked for you is great, but you shouldn't mistake your experience for the general case. I have a lot of friends who do retreats like this, and they universally recommend that most people work their way up. Regarding point #3, for those who would like guidance, I recommend finding a local me…

It might be better to recommend a 1,2, or 3 day retreat which are also common and more approachable (and possible) to many people.

That's definitely a more reasonable recommendation, although it's probably not the one I'd make myself. Some people take to meditation quite naturally; for some it's a real struggle. For the inexperienced but curious, about the most I'd generally recommend is stopping by some meditation group for a single sit.

As an example, the San Francisco Zen Center's farm, Green Gulch, has a Sunday program that's quite nice:

http://www.sfzc.org/ggf/display.asp?catid=3,123&pageid=239

Gentle instruction, a short lecture, and then the option of casual tea and conversation.

If people find themselves comfortable enough with a single sit that they're saying, "Gosh, I want 3 days of this," then more power to 'em. But that definitely wasn't my first experience. I needed a more gradual path.

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#164

Post by sherr »

redmaverick wrote: post #23

There are different types of meditation styles. I had experience with a type of meditation mentioned in the article. It is known as mindfulness meditation. Even in mindfulness meditation there are different approaches. Mine is mindfulness through the awareness of bodily sensations. http://www.dhamma.org/ This is the 10 day course I underwent. It is pretty brutal and intense. You meditate for 8 hrs a day in total sile…

Thank you for such a good description of what you are doing. I am also trying to do mindfulness meditation but am only managing 15 or 20 minutes a day just now. It can be frustrating but occasionally (rarely for me) you notice something (almost) happening that makes it worthwhile. I think persistence is key. Reading this type of post helps me persevere.

I should also mention a good book I read recently about meditation, helping the author Tim Parks overcome increasingly chronic pain. The book is not only very funny in parts, it is also a beautiful description of mindfulness practice :

http://tim-parks.com/non-fiction/teach-us-to-sit-still/

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#165

Post by kamakazizuru »

wpietri wrote: post #163
colechristensen wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be better to recommend a 1,2, or 3 day retreat which are also common and more approachable (and possible) to many people.

That's definitely a more reasonable recommendation, although it's probably not the one I'd make myself. Some people take to meditation quite naturally; for some it's a real struggle. For the inexperienced but curious, about the most I'd generally recommend is stopping by some meditation group for a single sit. As an example, the San Francisco Zen Center's farm, Green Gulch, has a Sunday program that's quite nice: htt…

I think each one has their own mileage - I was just refuting the parent's claim that you "should" do x or y - I think if you've considered it for a while and think you can stick through it - there's no harm in trying a 10 day retreat. Just as there's no harm in trying a marathon if you're generally fit. Worst case you drop out / slow down.

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#166

Post by latiera »

KobaQ wrote: post #17

The goal of meditation is not to get a better brain. As the goal of yoga is not to get a sexy body. These articles and even more the countless yoga ads with young beautiful ladies are really counterproductive from the viewpoint of yoga. They might be helpful from another perspective. I can't summarize the real goal of yoga properly (meditation is one of the important exercise beside contemplation; the asanas are for…

The "goal" of meditation/yoga is UNION with GOD.

Where GOD can be anything of significance to you but to those who have experienced it's "the universe", the Void, the Unborn, the Undying and so on.

It's funny how a lot of ppl disregard this and have no clue about the "occult" (magick!) elements of the Art. When "mystical" experiences happen to them, lacking theory/practice and a proper framework to serve as a foundation, they tend to lose the world under their feet.

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#167

Post by wpietri »

kamakazizuru wrote: post #165
wpietri wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitely a more reasonable recommendation, although it's probably not the one I'd make myself. Some people take to meditation quite naturally; for some it's a real struggle. For the inexperienced but curious, about the most I'd generally recommend is stopping by some meditation group for a single sit. As an example, the San Francisco Zen Center's farm, Green Gulch, has a Sunday program that's quite nice: htt…

I think each one has their own mileage - I was just refuting the parent's claim that you "should" do x or y - I think if you've considered it for a while and think you can stick through it - there's no harm in trying a 10 day retreat. Just as there's no harm in trying a marathon if you're generally fit. Worst case you drop out / slow down.

That is an interesting theory, but you are definitely wrong about the marathon part. I know a number of people who have harmed themselves by attempting a marathon as their first race, a couple permanently.

My concern about the harm of an unprepared person taking a 10-day class is different. Most of the people I know who went from doing nothing to trying a marathon are no longer runners. Either the difficulty and pain or the experience of failure were enough to dissuade them from taking up a regular running practice. If someone jumps into a 10-day retreat with no prior experience, I would be concerned about something similar happening to them.

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#168

Post by fsloth »

fdsary wrote: post #160
fsloth wrote: post #100

Meditation seems to sound really weird to lot of people but the zen breathing exercises I've done are mechanical and completely devoid of mystical culturally relative concepts. Simple introductory exercise in meditation for those unfamiliar with it. No mystical chanting required. The only caveat is that it can be as boring as hell. I'm not an expert but this should contain the essentials of a simple zen practice: Equ…

I think this comment was important to me. I've never understood what the fuzz is about, but after reading this I decided "fuck it, why not try?". I just did a 5 minute one. Genius idea about the timer, wouldn't be possible otherwise. Afterwards I felt 5kg lighter. I will put this in my life toolbox. Thank you.

I'm glad you found it usefull!

The relationship between this sort of meditation and the various schools that use meditation as part of their doctrine seems to me be like the difference between engaging in an exercise and exercising as part of a particular club/school.

Personally I've had a few moment in my life where there introspective skills I've gained from this have probably been for the better.

Not sure if it's from the practice, or just some anxiety relieving placebo effect caused by the practice, though. Seems to be good for me, whichever the underlying effect.

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#169

Post by byEngineer »

wpietri wrote: post #162
byEngineer wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you said fuck off to christianity only to become Buddhist cult member? How typical of leftist lemmings from HN forum!

Setting aside the large dose of crazy: My issue isn't with Christianity; it's with the people who tried to bully me into becoming a Christian. My interest in Buddhism is in the philosophy and certain of the techniques. I have no interest in the religious aspects of it.

so you are into buddhist "philosophy" and "certain techniques". But you consider yourself agnostic probably? Or atheist... And of course you don't see any contradiction here.

you know why the cults are out there? Because people who don't believe in God are ready to believe in anything. Wandering from yoga classes to self-improvement new-agey seminars and paying the top dollar for the privilege.

Picking and choosing from a technique here and a convenient piece of philosophy there doesn't sound like solid approach to spiritual life.

Treating your soul like cart in a convenience store where you just throw-in whatever looks good is plain naive, immature and wrong. Besides, Yoga, buddhism fashion and other New Agey fashions are so passe: they peaked in 80s/90s. Are there still people treating this seriously?

I'm sorry but this is the lowest form of spirituality I can imagine. You probably would be better off omitting this spiritual junk food of new age instead altogether.

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#170

Post by estefan »

byEngineer wrote: post #169
wpietri wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting aside the large dose of crazy: My issue isn't with Christianity; it's with the people who tried to bully me into becoming a Christian. My interest in Buddhism is in the philosophy and certain of the techniques. I have no interest in the religious aspects of it.

so you are into buddhist "philosophy" and "certain techniques". But you consider yourself agnostic probably? Or atheist... And of course you don't see any contradiction here. you know why the cults are out there? Because people who don't believe in God are ready to believe in anything. Wandering from yoga classes to self-improvement new-agey seminars and paying the top dollar for the privilege. Picking and choosing f…

> But you consider yourself agnostic probably? Or atheist... And of course you don't see any contradiction here.

Buddhism is nontheistic, so no contradiction...

> You probably would be better off omitting this spiritual junk food of new age instead altogether.

In favour of what?

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