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“Start Rails 5 development”

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Re: “Start Rails 5 development”

#51

Post by meesterdude »

echoless wrote: post #7

I'm curious about the fate of Rails(and other frameworks like Django) in a few years, seeing that many web applications are moving to the Single-Page-Application model and the server simply acts as a rest backend. Perhaps there will still be a large demand for sites that aren't SPA applications. Interesting times.

Rails isn't going away, as there are plenty of sites on the internet that use it. Everything I build is in rails, and i like it that way. And it makes my life pretty awesome, and is enjoyable to work with. I really can't complain.

Single page is an option for some people, and there are several ways to get you there as well. But that's the great thing about the web: we have all kinds of ways to deliver an end product.

That doesn't make other rendering methods go away, though. Flash is still around, for example. And there's really no reason to project that rails will suffer some terrible fate in a few years time. It's been around for several years now and has done nothing but grow, so as long as it solves a problem and people go to it, it and other frameworks will hang around.

Re: “Start Rails 5 development”

#52

Post by tinco »

jonnii wrote: post #50
tinco wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to one-up you, just since apparently it's worth mentioning, I've been doing webdev for about 9 years, and at least from my perspective backend rendering is definitely going out the window. I started as a Rails dev in 2008, did ASP.Net before that, and last year I've moved from Rails to a pimped up Grape, which is a framework suited more for developing API's. Maybe it's just the sort of apps I'm building (basicall…

When you say "Ember seems to do too much", can you give me an example? I'm interested in understanding why it has this reputation of being bloated.

I'm not certain if it's bloated, and if I was building a regular CRUD app I would probably have selected it over Angular. It just implemented some things I had the feeling I would do differently, i.e. I didn't want to pick a framework I would have to fight to get to work the way I wanted it to. Ember is being developed by some very smart guys so I would never dismiss it out of hand.

Re: “Start Rails 5 development”

#53

Post by tinco »

scoot wrote: post #47
tinco wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to one-up you, just since apparently it's worth mentioning, I've been doing webdev for about 9 years, and at least from my perspective backend rendering is definitely going out the window. I started as a Rails dev in 2008, did ASP.Net before that, and last year I've moved from Rails to a pimped up Grape, which is a framework suited more for developing API's. Maybe it's just the sort of apps I'm building (basicall…

Is this stack something you'd consider documenting? Coming from Rails, but increasingly moving towards SPAs with Rails as the API (hard to give up all the OOTB niceties), this sounds intriguing.

I definitely am going to do that as soon as we're going to start marketing the app. But at the moment the way we built it is not very repeatable, I'd love to see a project that builds out grape to be more like a standalone framework like rails is, maybe if we get time we could do that.

Re: “Start Rails 5 development”

#54

Post by mixonic »

jonnii wrote: post #50
tinco wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to one-up you, just since apparently it's worth mentioning, I've been doing webdev for about 9 years, and at least from my perspective backend rendering is definitely going out the window. I started as a Rails dev in 2008, did ASP.Net before that, and last year I've moved from Rails to a pimped up Grape, which is a framework suited more for developing API's. Maybe it's just the sort of apps I'm building (basicall…

When you say "Ember seems to do too much", can you give me an example? I'm interested in understanding why it has this reputation of being bloated.

Ember, more strongly than any of the other solutions mentioned, pushes you to a browser application (or SPA) architecture. Usually developers who complain about bloat aren't thinking of web development in that context.

The number of challenges a framework should help a developer manage for a long-lived client-side JavaScript application is not trivial. It is absolutely true that Ember is heavier than other frameworks, but it has a specific style of development in mind. If someone chooses to build their app with an alternative, they often end up with a similar amount of code in other dependencies and application code.

And though we aren't there yet, we're working on ideas for modular loading of application code (via the pods patterns) and of Ember itself via tree shaking. This latter strategy leverages the fact that Ember's code and much app code is written in ES6, and thus we can identify and drop un-referenced code.

Re: “Start Rails 5 development”

#55

Post by mulander »

tinco wrote: post #27
digitalzombie wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been doing web dev for 6 years, full stack, back and front, mostly somewhere in the middle and front end. From what I've seen, backend rendering ain't going no where. This SPA trends is still wild west. Angular 1 is kind slowing down imo cause of the drastic changes in Angular 2. Ember is bloat. The javascript eco system is meh right now. NodeJS people probably will argue against this. But seriously, javascript…

Not to one-up you, just since apparently it's worth mentioning, I've been doing webdev for about 9 years, and at least from my perspective backend rendering is definitely going out the window. I started as a Rails dev in 2008, did ASP.Net before that, and last year I've moved from Rails to a pimped up Grape, which is a framework suited more for developing API's. Maybe it's just the sort of apps I'm building (basicall…

I recently came to a similar opinion[1] of Angular like both of you though I was evaluating AgnularDart.

I decided to stick with plain Dart mostly of the reasons you mentioned (JavaScript ecosystem feeling like a mess). Polymer does look great but feels a bit unstable (at least for Dart).

What I would really love to see is a simple front-end framework handling:

- routing

- view encapsulation

- basic animations (when views are altered/loaded)

- back-end requests - preferably swap-in-out (http, websockets)

I ended up basically doing the above by hand in plain Dart. The only part that I found ready made and working nicely so far is the routing part[2] from Angular.

[1] - http://homing-on-code.blogspot.com/2014/11/dart-one-year-lat...

[2] - https://pub.dartlang.org/packages/route_hierarchical

Re: “Start Rails 5 development”

#56

Post by murphm8 »

tinco wrote: post #27
digitalzombie wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been doing web dev for 6 years, full stack, back and front, mostly somewhere in the middle and front end. From what I've seen, backend rendering ain't going no where. This SPA trends is still wild west. Angular 1 is kind slowing down imo cause of the drastic changes in Angular 2. Ember is bloat. The javascript eco system is meh right now. NodeJS people probably will argue against this. But seriously, javascript…

Not to one-up you, just since apparently it's worth mentioning, I've been doing webdev for about 9 years, and at least from my perspective backend rendering is definitely going out the window. I started as a Rails dev in 2008, did ASP.Net before that, and last year I've moved from Rails to a pimped up Grape, which is a framework suited more for developing API's. Maybe it's just the sort of apps I'm building (basicall…

What about Backbone[1] and Marionette[2] for SPA? Do you have an opinion on those tools?

[1]http://backbonejs.org/

[2]http://marionettejs.com/

Re: “Start Rails 5 development”

#57

Post by dgregd »

bshimmin wrote: post #41
dgregd wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you please explain why my comment have been down-voted?

Probably because you haven't really provided any supporting evidence for your conclusions. Always show your working out. (Also, for many people, the first thing they do on a Rails project is disable Turbolinks.) I actually happen to agree that Rails is still a supremely productive way to build certain types of web sites and/or applications. An experienced Rails guy, leveraging the vast array of gems out there which c…

Two years ago I built an app using Angular. Of curse using Rails as the back-end. As a whole this wasn't a good experience. A such simple thing like authorization took a day or two to implement, solution looked like a one big hack.

However some SPA/Angular features worked beautiful. Two way data binding and local templates allow to build complex forms very easy. Data validation of one to many associations was straightforward. In Rails we have to use accepts_nested_attributes_for. It is so 'nice' that some people want to move nested attributes functionality to an external gem.

The biggest thing Rails is missing: components. There is a discussion today on HN [1] about this. Angular, web components, HTTP2 might really allow to build real object oriented web apps. In Rails there is a view.erb file and that's it [2].

I guess that competition will force developers to build even more user friendly and responsive apps. By that I mean no more separate pages to add a simple record. New apps will allow to click on a record, edit it in place and save with enter. And to do that well we need SPA architecture.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8671590 [2] 10 years ago it was a big thing. At that time typical app is was a bunch of PHP files.

Re: “Start Rails 5 development”

#58

Post by tomchristie »

echoless wrote: post #7

I'm curious about the fate of Rails(and other frameworks like Django) in a few years, seeing that many web applications are moving to the Single-Page-Application model and the server simply acts as a rest backend. Perhaps there will still be a large demand for sites that aren't SPA applications. Interesting times.

Personally I think they're going to remain strong. More single page apps? Fine, but they still need to be backed by an API and, in most cases, a relational database. Yes there will be more frontend templating, and yes more mature fuller stack JS alternatives will emerge, but those role those frameworks fulfill is still needed, backend template rendering or not.

Re: “Start Rails 5 development”

#59

Post by PascalW »

murphm8 wrote: post #56
tinco wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to one-up you, just since apparently it's worth mentioning, I've been doing webdev for about 9 years, and at least from my perspective backend rendering is definitely going out the window. I started as a Rails dev in 2008, did ASP.Net before that, and last year I've moved from Rails to a pimped up Grape, which is a framework suited more for developing API's. Maybe it's just the sort of apps I'm building (basicall…

What about Backbone[1] and Marionette[2] for SPA? Do you have an opinion on those tools? [1] http://backbonejs.org/ [2] http://marionettejs.com/

This is what we use extensively at my work place to build cross platform mobile apps. It's very well suited for mobile apps since it's so lightweight.

We use it in combination with Cordova and some other stuff like Haml Coffee Assets and Fastclick.js.

Re: “Start Rails 5 development”

#60

Post by bherms »

r-s wrote: post #46
ragecore wrote: post #3

I think it's shipping with its own background processor, Active Jobs. Sounds good!

Active Jobs, at least how implemented in 4.2 is not its own background processor. Its just a common api for using the background processor of your choice (Sidekiq, Resque, Delayed job etc).

ActievJob actually does default to :inline, which uses the Rails process to execute the job, so in a way, it kind of is it's own background processor, but you can easily swap out, as it implements an API for creating and scheduling jobs.
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