Live data from Hacker News

Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

news.harvard.edu

61–70 of 185 posts

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why and in what way is thinking about sensations and one's body different from thinking about past or future? The sensations are actually happening, right here, right now. Thoughts about the past or future are just mental constructs and have no reality beyond that. It's all about being present right here, right now, in this moment.

> The sensations are actually happening, right here, right now. Thoughts about the past or future are just mental constructs and have no reality beyond that. Except, those sensations might not be 'actually happening'. > The sensations feel like tiny extremely weak electric currents zapping through on the surface and disappearing. Or it could be a weak throbbing and itching sensation. Sometimes you get the feeling of…

> Except, those sensations might not be 'actually happening'.

The sensations, as in what impulses you observe in your mind, certainly are happening. Whether or not the sensations are a result of actual physical stimuli is both the point and besides the point. If they are invented by your brain, that makes them no less valid to observe. Yet if they are invented by your brain, then observing the qualities of those sensations is still fascinating and just as valid.

> It doesn't surprise me at all that, after concentrating on a particular body area in silence for 8 hours a day for 3-4 days

You don't need to spend more than 1 second focusing on your body to pick up some sensation or another. He is not suggesting you should try to pick up something unusual, but observe what you already notice thousands upon thousands of time every day, but which you normally do not pay attention to.

E.g. that itch on my left elbow, the way my glasses press down on my nose, the pillow pressing against my neck, my tongue pressing against the top of my mouth, the dryness of my lower lip, the sensations of my fingertips against the laptop keyboard, and so on.

Of course, from a purely philosophical standpoint you could argue those sensations also could be just illusions. But that's irrelevant.

> I take issue with preaching dubious advice.

What is the dubious advice being preached you take offence to?

There are certainly many, many meditation teachers that are teaching religious nonsense.

But the basic principles of meditation boils down to practices to learn to concentrate, and practices to learn how to observe your thought processes and physical sensations well within the scope of what is actually physically possible, verifiable and repeatable.

As an atheist and sceptic, meditation is something I think everyone should engage in, because, while there certainly is the possibility of "mystic" experiences because of the nature of prolonged concentration, you also have the potential to learn a great deal about your own thought processes that we usually ignore (and to learn how to dissect anything unusual you might "observe", alongside how to dissect other broken thought patterns)

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#62
post #56
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either join a course or pick up a good book. I found this book immensely useful and simple to follow: "Mindfulness in Plain English" [1] [1] http://www.amazon.com/Mindfulness-Plain-English-Anniversary-...

Is that book the same as this free one? http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html Does your book contain exercises?

It's the same book.

I strongly recommend it.

You don't need exercises: The book is a step by step "instruction manual".

There is only one exercise (in this context; there are many other forms of meditation) Sit comfortably. Breath in. Breath out. Repeat. Now gently try to let go of your thoughts, and gently focus your attention on your breath. When your mind slips, bring it back to the breath. Repeat for as long as you want to sit.

The reason you want to read the book is because it deals systematically with the practicalities, such as how to deal with pains and aches and distractions, or how to deal with sudden intense nonsensical urges (for example, when I started I went through a period where I'd get one minute or so in and then be convinced that I'd failed to set my timer, and that I had been sitting for way too long, and that I'd be late for something, anything; it took weeks to push past that barrier).

I'd also strongly recommend this series [1] of recordings of a course by Gil Fronsdal. It covers the same practice, and fits very well with the book. And like the book, the course recording is very much kept secular.

[1] http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma12/GilMed07.html

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#63
post #34
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found these downloads useful: http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/books-articles/medita...

I know Gil Fronsdal and the community he serves. His talks are always practical and empathic. There won't be any woo or supernaturalism in these, but a generous humanity.

I stayed away from meditation for very long because of the "woo and supernaturalism" concern, and I agree - Gil Fronsdals stuff is great.

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#64

I read Dan Harris' book 10% happier and started meditating for just 5 minutes a day. I can highly recommend it. I am much more aware and present when doing it than those days I do not.

I made a similar experience. When I force myself to sit still and focus on breathing for just 7 minutes in the morning, it seems to make me more aware of what I'm doing for the rest of the day. Sometimes I continue to 40 minutes. Too often I skip it entirely and e.g. surf the net instead, which makes me feel like a work-addicted wreck who won't grant himself just 7 minutes of peace.

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#65
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sensations are actually happening, right here, right now. Thoughts about the past or future are just mental constructs and have no reality beyond that. Except, those sensations might not be 'actually happening'. > The sensations feel like tiny extremely weak electric currents zapping through on the surface and disappearing. Or it could be a weak throbbing and itching sensation. Sometimes you get the feeling of…

> Except, those sensations might not be 'actually happening'. The sensations, as in what impulses you observe in your mind, certainly are happening. Whether or not the sensations are a result of actual physical stimuli is both the point and besides the point. If they are invented by your brain, that makes them no less valid to observe. Yet if they are invented by your brain, then observing the qualities of those sens…

> If they are invented by your brain, that makes them no less valid to observe. Yet if they are invented by your brain, then observing the qualities of those sensations is still fascinating and just as valid.

I agree, but that completely undermines your argument for dismissing thoughts about the past or future, ie. that they're "just mental constructs".

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#66
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except, those sensations might not be 'actually happening'. The sensations, as in what impulses you observe in your mind, certainly are happening. Whether or not the sensations are a result of actual physical stimuli is both the point and besides the point. If they are invented by your brain, that makes them no less valid to observe. Yet if they are invented by your brain, then observing the qualities of those sens…

> If they are invented by your brain, that makes them no less valid to observe. Yet if they are invented by your brain, then observing the qualities of those sensations is still fascinating and just as valid. I agree, but that completely undermines your argument for dismissing thoughts about the past or future, ie. that they're "just mental constructs".

You miss the point.

Thoughts, whether about the past or future, or anything else, are perfectly valid objects of meditation, as long as you observe them rather than getting caught up in them.

The thoughts after all, occur here and now.

Consider the difference as one of engaging in an argument vs. watching someone else engage in an argument. When you are caught up in an argument, you attach emotions to it in a whole different way, and you attach importance to the arguments in a whole different way, and you get caught up in the flow in a whole different way, and you fail to notice all kinds of things that you notice as a passive observer.

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#67

There are different types of meditation styles. I had experience with a type of meditation mentioned in the article. It is known as mindfulness meditation. Even in mindfulness meditation there are different approaches. Mine is mindfulness through the awareness of bodily sensations. http://www.dhamma.org/ This is the 10 day course I underwent. It is pretty brutal and intense. You meditate for 8 hrs a day in total sile…

I went to one of these and got freaked out because it's an unmistakable cult. The teachers on the podiums up at the front is a creepy psychological hack, the recorded chanting they play while you meditate is hypnotic programming, the 2 hour video lectures of the great leader convincing you of his religion being your only stimulation, the bowing and mindless chanting from the regulars being passed off as "optional for…

> I went to one of these and got freaked out

That's the problem, you freaked out and left, even though they ask everyone multiple times at the beginning whether you are ready to stay for the full 10 days.

As someone who took more than one of these courses I can say that the single most important thing you should do during your first course is not quit. Strange things start happening to people when they are put into an environment where they can't do anything but eat, sleep and meditate. Your mind starts playing tricks on you and you start reacting to your thoughts. Wave after wave of anger, joy, confusion, happiness, sexual fantasies, tranquility, fear, etc, come and go. It's like your mind switches to different modes. You don't notice this during normal life, and that's the real beauty of these courses and centers. To give you an opportunity to observe all that is happening in your mind.

Although I experience this before, it still happens to me when I take a course and start wondering what am I doing here, this is a waste of time, this is all a cult, a scam, etc. Nope, it's just my mind reacting :) That's how you learn, I don't think there's another way to silence the mind.

>I tried to skip a session because I didn't get enough sleep and the management came and got me out of my room.

That's their job. It's not a holiday and you are there to work hard. In fact I can easily say that my first course was the hardest thing I've done in my life, it was just brutal. But my mind felt much clearer, I had way less anxiety and just felt kind of happy.

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#68

I read Dan Harris' book 10% happier and started meditating for just 5 minutes a day. I can highly recommend it. I am much more aware and present when doing it than those days I do not.

I also highly recommend the other Harris' (Sam) book "Waking Up".

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#69
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they are invented by your brain, that makes them no less valid to observe. Yet if they are invented by your brain, then observing the qualities of those sensations is still fascinating and just as valid. I agree, but that completely undermines your argument for dismissing thoughts about the past or future, ie. that they're "just mental constructs".

You miss the point. Thoughts, whether about the past or future, or anything else, are perfectly valid objects of meditation, as long as you observe them rather than getting caught up in them . The thoughts after all, occur here and now. Consider the difference as one of engaging in an argument vs. watching someone else engage in an argument. When you are caught up in an argument, you attach emotions to it in a whole…

This here was exactly the key to mindfulness for me. Learning that I don't need to suppress my thoughts and have a blank mind mind. This was my mistake before. I got frustrated when new thoughts inevitably came up, and ended up either focusing on my frustration or the thought.

But then I learned to just observe my thoughts non-judgmentally and without delving into them. Just let the thought be, just as I just let my breath be. Let the thoughts come, acknowledge them without grabbing hold, and let them float by. This is just the constant flux of the mind, just as the constant sensations I get from my body.

Re: Meditation study shows changes associated with awareness, stress (2011)

#70
post #54

I have been practicing mindfulness meditation for the last 14 months - 30 minutes, everyday and I have to say that it has been virtually the most important skill that I have picked up. Because it's essentailly that - a skill. I was very stressed and the anxiety started to affect virtually every aspect of my life. My family wanted me to seek professional help (take pills), but I decided to try to take care of it mysel…

I've been meditating on and off for the past 30 years.

For people trying out, there's no need to do it everyday. Don't be stressed out with missing out on your meditation schedule.

Meditate when you can. It's not a race. There is no sculpted body to show off after rigorous workout regime at the gym. It's just for yourself.

Post reply on HN