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Google should be broken up, say European MPs

bbc.com

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Re: Google should be broken up, say European MPs

#21

Post by justin66 »

harperlee wrote: post #4

I don't know a lot about the requirements of these operations; how can the European Union guarantee that each Subgoogle does not agree with the rest to provide services to each other that I can't access to? I don't see how they can enforce that any company can be playing a level field against another subgoogle competitor...

That's not what it's really about. It's going to end up being about the fine, which the article suggests could amount to five billion dollars. That buys a lot of limousine tires and office chairs.

Re: Google should be broken up, say European MPs

#22

Post by jbrooksuk »

rvschuilenburg wrote: post #19
throwawayaway wrote: post #10

If they actually knew what they were talking about, they would be voting to decentralize the internet, not break Google up. I don't think trying to break up Microsoft or fine them for bundling internet explorer achieved a whole lot. They are looking at the problem the wrong way.

> I don't think trying to break up Microsoft or fine them for bundling internet explorer achieved a whole lot. I don't know. Is Internet Explorer still the most used webbrowser?

> Is Internet Explorer still the most used webbrowser?

Your point is moot.

Re: Google should be broken up, say European MPs

#23

Post by vince_refiti »

oblio wrote: post #11
vince_refiti wrote: post #6

The European Union should be broken up.

When debating pro-against EU, we should never forget how pre-EU Europe looked like. We've been incredibly good at killing each other. I'd pick a huge beauracracy over arms races any day of the week.

Don't they still subsidize their agricultural sector, and dump stuff on the international markets and hurt non-EU farmers? I consider that to be very uncompetitive.

Re: Google should be broken up, say European MPs

#24

Post by fear91 »

Google's grip on search is absolutely enormous, especially in Europe.

They literally decide lives of thousands of people when they change their algorithms. With one update, they kill thousands of websites someone lives off and then they replace them with big brands or their own services.

This isn't healthy for anyone and I wish there was more competition. It would do a lot of good to everyone.

Re: Google should be broken up, say European MPs

#25

Post by oblio »

brc wrote: post #18

Ugh, not this again. The only real monopolies are those which are protected by government regulation or control. Google is out there on the freewheeling internet competing. It has a broad portfolio of products, but their main revenue stream - ads from search engine - has about the lowest switching costs of any product known to man. Google is far from an angel, and the days of 'don't be evil' are a quaint memory. But…

If a monopoly forms through natural means, is it not still a monopoly?

Re: Google should be broken up, say European MPs

#27

Post by pavlov »

Donzo wrote: post #8

Not that it'd ever happen, but I would very much enjoy watching what would unfold if Google ceased to provide services to these nations. Can you imagine the backlash?

"Bwaah, we'll take our oddly-shaped football and go home" is a common knee-jerk response from Americans, but it makes as little sense as MEPs suggesting to break up Google.

The way to solve these issues is dialogue. Google tried long and hard to reason with the Chinese Communist Party, after all. Compared to the CCP, the European Parliament is a paragon of transparency and democracy.

Re: Google should be broken up, say European MPs

#28

Post by gchp »

agd wrote: post #7

> Google has around 90% market share for search in Europe It's a complete monopoly and the barrier to entry is huge. Might be a good thing to break them up.

I agree that its a monopoly, though I find it funny that serious time & consideration is being given to discuss breaking them up.

Google are a company who have a product (search, among many). Their product is successful (many people use search). Competitors obviously find it hard to break into the market, and want to make that easier. Is this not how business works? A company creates a product and tries to make it as popular and widely used as possible? Also, is Google not at liberty to decide how it ranks search results? Surely if they want to hide results from competitors they are allow to do that?

If my company made car tyres, and 90% of car owners in Europe used my tyres, I'd find it absolutely ludicrous if my competitors tried to break up my company because its "unfair" that I have the market share.

Google has the market share for search, whether its "unfair" or not. Competitors should work hard to push them off with their own products, not by trying to break up the organisation. Seems somewhat petty to me.

There are other arguments which are valid such as:

> How Google copies content from other websites - such as restaurant reviews - to include within its own services

Disclaimer: I don't use Google products.

Re: Google should be broken up, say European MPs

#29

Post by matthewmacleod »

brc wrote: post #18

Ugh, not this again. The only real monopolies are those which are protected by government regulation or control. Google is out there on the freewheeling internet competing. It has a broad portfolio of products, but their main revenue stream - ads from search engine - has about the lowest switching costs of any product known to man. Google is far from an angel, and the days of 'don't be evil' are a quaint memory. But…

The only real monopolies are those which are protected by government regulation or control.

This is utter, objective nonsense. Look at Microsoft as a case in point, which had a near 100% market share of desktop operating systems. Nobody would claim that wasn't a monopoly.

Google is out there on the freewheeling internet competing. It has a broad portfolio of products, but their main revenue stream - ads from search engine - has about the lowest switching costs of any product known to man.

It does, but the question is whether Google—which has a 90% market share—is unfairly using the power that brings to promote their other services. That's a perfectly valid question, and is pretty much the entire reason for the existence of antitrust rules.

But these European Regulators should look in their own backyard, and perhaps spend some time dismantling their own regulatory mess. You never know, undoing some of that red tape might even get their economy to grow. Stranger things have happened.

Currently, in Europe, Google has a share of the market that apparently Europe-level government feels is doing harm to the industry through abuse of monopoly. Isn't this exactly the sort of area we want government to intervene in?

Re: Google should be broken up, say European MPs

#30

Post by rtpg »

I know a lot of people kind of scoff at the idea of breaking up Google because they happen to offer the best product, but here are the 4 points mentioned

>The manner in which Google displays its own vertical search services compared with other, competing products

> How Google copies content from other websites - such as restaurant reviews - to include within its own services

> The exclusivity Google has to sell advertising around the search terms people use

> Restrictions on advertisers from moving their online ad campaigns to rival search engines

First point is kind of hard to fight in my opinion, since a company has the right to publish its own services.

I don't see how Google gets away with the second point for non-CC'd material. This definitely doesn't fall under fair-use (people don't land on the website of the copyright owner because it's copied by google => devalue the work)

Third point is... don't know what precedent there is for forcing a company to open up its network apart from ISPs/telecoms.

The fourth point seems like huge abuse of monopoly. I wasn't aware of these restrictions before, and definitely seems to go against "don't be evil".

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