Ha! What a load of crap! I can't see this "Java" catching on...
Developing and running a Java EE Hello World application
31–40 of 84 posts
Re: Developing and running a Java EE Hello World application
#32Setting up any web stack is a pain in the ass and probably just as long of a tutorial. For example, write out a tutorial which goes from base Ubuntu install to "hello world" on Rails, I bet it's just as long or longer. I suppose it depends on how much detail you want to include. There are just more "one click" install options for other stacks.
How about:
apt-get install php5 apache
echo "Hello World" > /var/www/index.php
Re: Developing and running a Java EE Hello World application
#33Setting up any web stack is a pain in the ass and probably just as long of a tutorial. For example, write out a tutorial which goes from base Ubuntu install to "hello world" on Rails, I bet it's just as long or longer. I suppose it depends on how much detail you want to include. There are just more "one click" install options for other stacks.
>>Setting up any web stack is a pain in the ass and probably just as long of a tutorial. I beg to differ. http://bottlepy.org/docs/dev/tutorial.html#quickstart-hello-... http://howtonode.org/hello-node (In fairness, I do note that the above examples don't actually have a element to click on before showing helloworld like the Java example)
[deleted]
Re: Developing and running a Java EE Hello World application
#34I've also done some JEE quite a long time ago and I hated every second of it. I'm not sure however if my experience is representative of the the Java community. There is no problem with the language itself nor the VM which is also working quite fine (while taking a lot of RAM). But I really have a problem with the community, everything seems over-engineered and super complicated in Java, even with simple things.
Nothing works by default, you always have to include stuff here and there, write one or two xml files before anything would work, I'm fine with configuration but I should at least work by default. Maven is a nightmare to use, it's so complicated I would generally not use it. I would just like a package manager which is only doing packages like any other language.
The main problem with the Java community in my own opinion is they are building pyramids while other languages are building stuff out of bricks, it's the opposite of the UNIX philosophy.
Re: Developing and running a Java EE Hello World application
#35This looks like a deliberately anti-java post or something taken completely out of context.
Re: Developing and running a Java EE Hello World application
#36Taking a cheap jab at Java EE just because their "Hello World" introduction article is a bit lengthy is bad form. Judging by the insulting "kids" reference in your title, Java EE has a completely different mindset than you are used to and the target audience doesn't include you. That doesn't mean the millions of other developers and billions of other platforms running Java are inferior.
At a previous employer, we've migrated a complex J2EE (with EJB 2.0 and such) E-Banking system to use only Jetty and JDBC directly. No one in operations noticed the difference. But the developers did. Oh they were about 5x as productive afterwards. With no missing features. Perhaps I'm not included in the target audience. But if E-Banking can do it, what remains of the "target audience" ?
We have a pretty complex Java EE 7 application but we migrated from JPA to pure JDBC (obviously with abstractions so we can support multiple database implementations, but our current only implementation is PostgreSQL). So it's mainly CDI, JAX-RS (RESTful API), JDBC and timers, and it's pretty great performance-wise and developers are kept fairly productive.
Re: Developing and running a Java EE Hello World application
#37Setting up any web stack is a pain in the ass and probably just as long of a tutorial. For example, write out a tutorial which goes from base Ubuntu install to "hello world" on Rails, I bet it's just as long or longer. I suppose it depends on how much detail you want to include. There are just more "one click" install options for other stacks.
How about: apt-get install php5 apache echo " Hello World " > /var/www/index.php The end.
And are you going to use this process for development work? I doubt that.
Plus, in your example, at the end you're stuck with PHP. I'd rather be stuck with Java EE :)
Re: Developing and running a Java EE Hello World application
#38Is the point of this saying that J2EE is bloated and that simple operations are made seemingly impossible? Of course you wouldn't write an "hello world" in j2ee, what would be the point? All that stuff makes it easier later to write more complex stuff, so I really don't see the point of this submission.
> All that stuff makes it easier later to write more complex stuff I sincerely doubt that. I've seen E-Banking systems run on Jetty with JDBC directly. No fancy JSRs were needed. Btw: J2EE was indeed even more bloated than JavaEE. I don't think that anyone would defend J2EE nowadays, not even the folks behind JavaEE
Truth be told, the code quality of electronic banking is often rather questionable. Probably they developed a prototype without any bells and whistles (and without proper guards against code injection, without support for distributed operation) and then were forced to use it as the base of the real product.
Re: Developing and running a Java EE Hello World application
#39i don't think the point of the article is to introduce JEE , its rather in the very first line :
>>"This tutorial is intended to help you get started with developing applications for Java Platform, Enterprise Edition (Java EE) in IntelliJ IDEA. "
They intend to show all JEE bells and whistles in one tutorial so that , people can look at this and know what they need to do to work on IntelliJ developing JEE application.
Not starting out on JEE itself.Which to be honest might require more of a different learning curve ,
Re: Developing and running a Java EE Hello World application
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
At a previous employer, we've migrated a complex J2EE (with EJB 2.0 and such) E-Banking system to use only Jetty and JDBC directly. No one in operations noticed the difference. But the developers did. Oh they were about 5x as productive afterwards. With no missing features. Perhaps I'm not included in the target audience. But if E-Banking can do it, what remains of the "target audience" ?
Agreed. It's also possible to use frameworks such as Spring Data/Boot, Roo or Grails to get started really quickly - a bit like the django/rails crowd. Lots of interesting things happening in Java world at the moment. It seems like originally Java drew from the mega complex enterprise application world influenced by people building large scale C++ apps etc so were hardly aware of the complexity they were adding. Now…
The problem with Grails is, like you said, it focuses on getting started quickly, rather then producing a maintainable and performant codebase. I mean, Hibernate is very complex in itself, and adding another layer (GORM) on top of it won't make things better.
If I were to start a new java project, I would probably choose Dropwizard (http://dropwizard.io/), which is more a collection of libraries then a framework.