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Yahoo Mail moving to React

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Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#221

Post by insin »

Sawbones wrote: post #207
DigitalSea wrote: post #192

I am surprised at all of the hate that Yahoo! is receiving for this, in the comments section of Hacker News (not surprisingly). This is great in my opinion, I think React.js is definitely the future of SPA's especially when combined with the Flux architecture. As someone who has been using React on a daily basis for the last few months, I have a severe man-crush on it. It just makes so much sense, combined with somet…

I really need someone to explain to me what they love so much about React.js. I tried it out and I absolutely hated the way components didn't understand their relation with other components. I had to chain a callback all the way down to my ListItem Component just so it could set which item was selected in the component and let other components know that. If you ever end up adding another parent component you have to…

Try going sideways once things get too nested for callbacks not to be arduous: https://github.com/rpflorence/react-training/blob/gh-pages/l...

Another option (albeit currently an undocumented one) is to use contexts to obviate the need to pass things down manually: http://davehking.com/2014/11/15/introduction-to-contexts-in-...

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#222

Post by LunaSea »

tootie wrote: post #22
brador wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think huge enterprise systems for some of the largest brands in the world are necessarily the best fit Why??

Not OP, but I'll chime in. Enterprise software has some unique challenges. Enterprises deal with a galaxy of small systems, a mixture of proprietary and purchased software, a mix of IT staff and consultants, leadership who may or not have techology as a core competency, frequently a lot of bureaucracy and compliance rules, lots of long-running maintenance and as a corollary, you may retain a lot of lower-tier talent…

Paypal switched to Node.js from Java (I think) and they divided their amount of servers by two.

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#223

Post by marknutter »

rakoo wrote: post #212
Sawbones wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really need someone to explain to me what they love so much about React.js. I tried it out and I absolutely hated the way components didn't understand their relation with other components. I had to chain a callback all the way down to my ListItem Component just so it could set which item was selected in the component and let other components know that. If you ever end up adding another parent component you have to…

That's because you used React alone, which works as a top-down view engine. If you want to modify something in the view, you have to go back to the top and modify the model. Instead of doing it manually, Facebook has created the Flux architecture to help you scale this process efficiently.

So Facebook created an architecture to solve a problem their new web framework introduced?

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#224

Post by eonwe »

romaniv wrote: post #217
woah wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding me? Source maps allow you to debug preprocessed as well as minified code. This allows seamless integration of multiple languages into the same ecosystem, libraries, etc.

You develop a language that is sent to the client in plain text. Then you write a lot of code in it. Then you realize that with so much code, file transfers take too long. You write a utility to strip out spaces and comments, as well as change variable names so files are smaller. Okay, so now you have unreadable plaintext files . After juggling minified and unminified version of the same code for some years you reali…

Path dependence.

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#225

Post by gasping »

woah wrote: post #216
dschiptsov wrote: post #89

Why on Earth people who aren't merely enthusiasts of "cool async JavaScript with V8" or those who began as a webdevs and knows nothing better than JS and PHP, could choose a single-threaded solution, which blocks the whole app if a single function blocks, and forces programmers to write spaghetti wrappers around asynchronous call-back hells in a non-functional but GC'ed language? I am really too stupid to get it. "Si…

If you have callback hell, it is an expression of muddled thought. If you have broken your code up into small enough modules and functions, and you know which tasks depend on other tasks, you will not have callback hell. If you are unclear on the logic of your code, you can often make it work in a messy way with the "laundry list approach". This involves formulating a sequence of tasks that happens to work, without n…

> If you have callback hell, it is an expression of muddled thought.

No. It's an indication that you're using a FOTM runtime environment. There's a reason why no production-ready runtime uses continous passing / callback models.

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#226

Post by k__ »

notastartup wrote: post #185
Igglyboo wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NPM is great, haven't used PHP but it blows Python's pip out of the water IMO.

used npm, and started using pip. it was way better because you could use python and not javascript.

I know what you mean. I use it with LiveScript.

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#227

Post by woah »

gasping wrote: post #225
woah wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have callback hell, it is an expression of muddled thought. If you have broken your code up into small enough modules and functions, and you know which tasks depend on other tasks, you will not have callback hell. If you are unclear on the logic of your code, you can often make it work in a messy way with the "laundry list approach". This involves formulating a sequence of tasks that happens to work, without n…

> If you have callback hell, it is an expression of muddled thought. No. It's an indication that you're using a FOTM runtime environment. There's a reason why no production-ready runtime uses continous passing / callback models.

I know a lot of people running node in production, and getting very high performance out of it. It may anger hacker news that such a thing is even possible, but there you have it.

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#228

Post by neftaly »

marknutter wrote: post #223
rakoo wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because you used React alone, which works as a top-down view engine. If you want to modify something in the view, you have to go back to the top and modify the model. Instead of doing it manually, Facebook has created the Flux architecture to help you scale this process efficiently.

So Facebook created an architecture to solve a problem their new web framework introduced?

No, they created an architecture and decoupled their web framework from it.

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#229

Post by peterwwillis »

LunaSea wrote: post #214
edwinnathaniel wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a 70%-90% back-end guy with 10-30% front-end work (when necessary). As the companies I work(ed) for evolve from JS => jQuery => Backbone.JS => Backbone.JS + Marionette => EmberJS, so does my skill have to evolve. I also have to write some JS code on top of PhantomJS + CasperJS (not for automation testing but instead for performance monitoring) to support enterprise product at the moment. I used to hate JS with pa…

I'm not sure why you consider the JavaScript ecosystem unstable ? JS has: - awesome dependency management systems like NPM and Bower - awesome task runners like Grunt and Gulp - NPM has thousands of plugins, more than Java's Maven and Ruby Gems [1] - Github badge support for builds, test coverage, dependency versions and NPM - Close second best StackOverflow support behind Java (without taking into account Node.js) […

'Most modern' ecosystem? That's likely, though it's honestly got the same things as every other programming ecosystem. I think the Perl ecosystem might be the most 'complete' programming ecosystem that exists today, in terms of implementing modern aspects of a programming ecosystem.

'Most stable' ecosystem? How do you figure that? It's only been around a short while in its current form. Other languages have had their current ecosystems hanging around for decades.

'Most evolved' ecosystem? Technically a single server-side javascript have existed since 1994, but other than JScript on ASP and Lotus Notes xPages (lol), nobody really used it again for non-frontend work until Node came around in 2009. AFAIK, jQuery was really the beginning of the 'modern' Javascript age back in 2006, and has slowly been adopting the practices of other programming ecosystems since. I would wager V8 was the biggest boost to JS development in the past 10 years, as it finally stopped being the slowest interpreted/scripting language in the world. Is there even a CPAN equivalent for JavaScript yet? It seems they've only implemented an equivalent of PAUSE or PPM.

Anyway, it's obviously getting better, but it's still pretty young.

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#230

Post by porker »

LunaSea wrote: post #214
edwinnathaniel wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a 70%-90% back-end guy with 10-30% front-end work (when necessary). As the companies I work(ed) for evolve from JS => jQuery => Backbone.JS => Backbone.JS + Marionette => EmberJS, so does my skill have to evolve. I also have to write some JS code on top of PhantomJS + CasperJS (not for automation testing but instead for performance monitoring) to support enterprise product at the moment. I used to hate JS with pa…

I'm not sure why you consider the JavaScript ecosystem unstable ? JS has: - awesome dependency management systems like NPM and Bower - awesome task runners like Grunt and Gulp - NPM has thousands of plugins, more than Java's Maven and Ruby Gems [1] - Github badge support for builds, test coverage, dependency versions and NPM - Close second best StackOverflow support behind Java (without taking into account Node.js) […

> I'm not sure why you consider the JavaScript ecosystem unstable ?

Well I'd say his opening might be the reason: "As the companies I work(ed) for evolve from JS => jQuery => Backbone.JS => Backbone.JS + Marionette => EmberJS, so does my skill have to evolve."

It's evolving fast, and this makes it unstable in terms of knowledge and what's being used. Depending on outlook (or age?) this can make it exciting. It's also a pain in the proverbials to keep up with, and everyone's at different places (while the HN crowd appears to have moved onto Gulp, many people I know are just discovering & starting to use Grunt).

Thousands of plugin says nothing about whether it's a stable ecosystem either: the majority could all be high quality, or they could be scratch-an-itch-and-move-on projects.

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