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Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

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Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#61

Post by 1971genocide »

Arainach wrote: post #32
shittyanalogy wrote: post #27

I never really understood the value in ticketing cyclists, or jay walkers for that matter in NYC. Very few people are getting hurt, even in the densest metropolitan area in the country so why are we so worried about it? Because cyclists can be annoying sometimes? Also the city speed limit went down to 25 mph. Isn't this supposed to take care of many of the collisions? Those of us that are safe cyclists but run red li…

> Those of us that are safe cyclists but run red lights Speaking as someone who bikes/takes transit everywhere (in Seattle, not NYC), what an oxymoron. I'm not saying that at every single stop sign you have to come to a complete, foot-on-the-ground stop, but running lights is ridiculous and will do nothing but increase the hatred for all cyclists held by drivers by antagonizing them. Every OTHER form of transportatio…

I do not think bikes need to stop at red lights, current laws and urban design are designed to make it really comfortable for cars.

It also makes is more dangerous for me to stop at red lights - because cyclists are bottlenecks in road. they can easily cause a lot of cars to slow down. I have had situations where I stopped at a red light and 4 huge lorries were behind me and once the signal got green they tried to overtake me.It was a really scary ride. If I got ahead on the mostly empty road I could moved ahead enough to reduce the time I was a bottleneck on the road benefiting both the car drivers and me.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#62

Post by shittyanalogy »

adharmad wrote: post #42
shittyanalogy wrote: post #27

I never really understood the value in ticketing cyclists, or jay walkers for that matter in NYC. Very few people are getting hurt, even in the densest metropolitan area in the country so why are we so worried about it? Because cyclists can be annoying sometimes? Also the city speed limit went down to 25 mph. Isn't this supposed to take care of many of the collisions? Those of us that are safe cyclists but run red li…

Errors by cyclists and pedestrians can cause vehicle accidents because mostly drivers expect cyclists and pedestrians to follow traffic rules and adhere to common safety guidelines.

That is an unsafe assumption and one of the first lessons of driving school. That you can never predict what people will do and to always be aware.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#63

Post by PaulHoule »

jff wrote: post #44

I wish all police everywhere started ticketing for more traffic violations. When everyone on the road--cyclist, motorist, and pedestrian--follows the rules precisely, traffic is predictable and safe. When morons wave you through at a 4-way stop, or turn without signaling (yay California), or blow red lights on their bicycle, you have to go into extra-defensive mode because the road is no longer predictable.

It astonishes me how much (many) cyclists blame everybody else for the dangers they are exposed to.

For instance, you even see bicycle cops riding their bikes on the wrong side of the street. If they're chasing a suspect or heading to a crime scene I'll forgive it, but they usually aren't in a hurry and are actually ignorant of the law they are supposed to enforce.

As a pedestrian I have been hit multiple times by cyclists on a sidewalk and in fact when I was in high school I knocked a pedestrian down pretty hard when I was rolling down a steep hill.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#64

Post by shittyanalogy »

genericuser wrote: post #60
shittyanalogy wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people are reckless, ticketing those of us that will stop when a police officer puts his arm out isn't going to stop the reckless.

True but ticketing the reckless ones is needed, and the fact there are reckless ones, enough that I encounter them regularly at the same intersection(its a really long light) indicates to me it should be enforced. So I was disagreeing with your belief that "while decreasing safety only by the slightest margin if even any. I honestly don't see the problem."

Many highway chases are called off because chasing the most dangerous people puts more people in danger than it's worth. It's an unfortunate reality but you can't discourage the extremely reckless by punishing the mildly.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#65

Post by jasonjei »

shittyanalogy wrote: post #59
jasonjei wrote: post #37

As a motorcyclist, I think cyclists should be held to the same rules of the law as other vehicles to make driving predictable and safe. As it stands right now, I have to assume cyclists (via heuristics/profiling) as a wildcard--will they run a red light? Will they weave in and out of traffic unsafely (this is an acceptable practice, when done with ample buffer given their size and speed)? I think cycling is great (I'…

I ride as well, but do you honestly think that motorcycles aren't wild cards? How many motorcyclists die or get seriously injured yealry as a result of their own recklessness as opposed to bikes. Do you honestly thing that bicyclists don't view every single motor vehicle as a wild card? The damage tables are enormously shifted.

I didn't say motorcyclists aren't a wildcard. To be honest, I see motorcyclists often being pulled over for being unpredictable and think it's a good thing. However, motorcyclists do tend to stop at red lights--which can't be said for 50 of the 100 times I've observed cyclists. And in places like California, lane splitting for cyclists and motorcyclists done safely does increase safety, reducing the possibility that you will be rear-ended by a texting driver [1].

Cycling injuries and public road infractions are often under reported or unreported. Cyclists also have less protective gear (Kevlar padding, body armor, leather, less protective helmet).

At least vehicles that act like wildcards will eventually be pulled over, and with any luck, lose their driving privileges. You should always assume everyone on the road is a loose cannon--however, that doesn't mean you should be a wildcard in return (e.g not stopping at red lights).

[1] Should only be done at stopped or traffic below 15mph. http://www.chp.ca.gov/programs/lanesplitguide.html

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#66

Post by mikeash »

1123581321 wrote: post #46
Arainach wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those of us that are safe cyclists but run red lights Speaking as someone who bikes/takes transit everywhere (in Seattle, not NYC), what an oxymoron. I'm not saying that at every single stop sign you have to come to a complete, foot-on-the-ground stop, but running lights is ridiculous and will do nothing but increase the hatred for all cyclists held by drivers by antagonizing them. Every OTHER form of transportatio…

The difference, in my city, anyway, is that lights are timed for cars and not bicycles. A light pattern that usually stops a car twice might stop a cyclist three or four times. A cyclists' lower speed and presence in the open air means that they react to the environment much more quickly. It's nearly impossible for a cyclist to fail to notice cross traffic when approaching an intersection whereas it's difficult for a…

According to Wikipedia, the Idaho Stop has not been adopted outside of Idaho.

I believe many jurisdictions allow bicyclists to proceed through a red light if they stop and wait for a minute or two and the light doesn't change, as a way to compensate for sensor-activated lights that bicycles won't trigger. But that's quite different.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#67

Post by genericuser »

clarry wrote: post #53
genericuser wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the drivers are present and having their hatred increased, then the cars are present and you shouldn't be running the red light when cars are present, because yes that does make you an unsafe cyclist in that regard.

No, the colour of a light doesn't make crossing the street unsafe. Even if there are fifty cars waiting at that intersection and a thousand more parked at the next lot.

The drivers that it increases hatred for aren't the parked ones ones, and aren't the ones next to you going the same direction, they are the ones that have to worry about an unexpected cyclist in their path, regardless of if you believe you will be safely out their path by the time they get to where you are.

I am sorry but I felt it was obvious I wasn't talking about parked cars.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#68

Post by ceejayoz »

PaulHoule wrote: post #63
jff wrote: post #44

I wish all police everywhere started ticketing for more traffic violations. When everyone on the road--cyclist, motorist, and pedestrian--follows the rules precisely, traffic is predictable and safe. When morons wave you through at a 4-way stop, or turn without signaling (yay California), or blow red lights on their bicycle, you have to go into extra-defensive mode because the road is no longer predictable.

It astonishes me how much (many) cyclists blame everybody else for the dangers they are exposed to. For instance, you even see bicycle cops riding their bikes on the wrong side of the street. If they're chasing a suspect or heading to a crime scene I'll forgive it, but they usually aren't in a hurry and are actually ignorant of the law they are supposed to enforce. As a pedestrian I have been hit multiple times by cy…

> For instance, you even see bicycle cops riding their bikes on the wrong side of the street.

You know, this one I understand entirely. When I walk on a road without sidewalks, I always walk on the wrong side of the road, so I can see what's coming and whether they're paying attention. Getting mowed down from behind by someone not looking where they're going isn't on my bucket list.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#69

Post by jff »

ceejayoz wrote: post #68
PaulHoule wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It astonishes me how much (many) cyclists blame everybody else for the dangers they are exposed to. For instance, you even see bicycle cops riding their bikes on the wrong side of the street. If they're chasing a suspect or heading to a crime scene I'll forgive it, but they usually aren't in a hurry and are actually ignorant of the law they are supposed to enforce. As a pedestrian I have been hit multiple times by cy…

> For instance, you even see bicycle cops riding their bikes on the wrong side of the street. You know, this one I understand entirely. When I walk on a road without sidewalks, I always walk on the wrong side of the road, so I can see what's coming and whether they're paying attention. Getting mowed down from behind by someone not looking where they're going isn't on my bucket list.

And that's correct--WHEN WALKING. Cyclists are supposed to behave as vehicles, not as pedestrians, so they need to move with traffic.
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