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Yahoo Mail moving to React

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Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#101

Post by matchu »

dschiptsov wrote: post #89

Why on Earth people who aren't merely enthusiasts of "cool async JavaScript with V8" or those who began as a webdevs and knows nothing better than JS and PHP, could choose a single-threaded solution, which blocks the whole app if a single function blocks, and forces programmers to write spaghetti wrappers around asynchronous call-back hells in a non-functional but GC'ed language? I am really too stupid to get it. "Si…

Node supports parallel processes (granted, not threads), promises are a nice alternative to nested callbacks, and Javascript supports basic functional style. You've named some legitimate challenges of Javascript, all of which have been addressed in some capacity.

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#102

Post by tootie »

Igglyboo wrote: post #75
k__ wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you are like me, who worked with PHP for years, node.js feels nicer to use. Npm alone makes it better than PHP ever was.

NPM is great, haven't used PHP but it blows Python's pip out of the water IMO.

NPM chokes for me about 1 time out of 10. The main repo has reliability issues. A lot of the libs install executables that require sudo. Java solved dependency management years ago. I don't know why every language doesn't just rely on a classpath.

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#103

Post by Gigablah »

k__ wrote: post #69
Igglyboo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

node.js is the new PHP for hip web developers who read HN. It's still a relatively unheard of platform to most people and mocked by a lot as well. I love it though.

Well, if you are like me, who worked with PHP for years, node.js feels nicer to use. Npm alone makes it better than PHP ever was.

I recently switched from PHP to node, but for what it's worth, PHP now has Packagist.

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#104

Post by nwienert »

loxs wrote: post #20
__mrwhite__ wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any particular reason why you feel like server-side JavaScript feels fragile? Also if by DOM manipulation you mean libraries like jQuery, have you tried more declarative approaches found in frameworks like Angular and React?

Few reasons: 1. Cooperative multitasking. Really? In 2014? Hello? 2. Weakest of weak typing. undefined is not a function? Anyone? 3. Everyone can override everything. 4. Conventions, that's the only way you can build software in JS. Anyone know of a person who doesn't break conventions? Having programmed in something like Erlang, which IMHO is the sanest technology available today for doing web, JS feels horrible.

I think really what happens is Node enables a new type of stack[1]. It doesn't actually really step on anything new the SPA's aren't already doing. Instead it moves to become isomorphic, so initial render is done by Node, but still the data sources, validation, and heavy backend logic all stays behind an API. That API could certainly be Erlang powered.

Also to respond to your points...

1. This I see as the most valid argument, but not a deal-breaker (see Walmart, LinkedIn using Node without problems scaling).

2. Check out Flow by Facebook [2] or TypeScript.

3. Not true with require/modules.

4. It's incredibly easy to include a JSLint file in your repo and as a git hook.

[1] http://nerds.airbnb.com/isomorphic-javascript-future-web-app... [2] http://flowtype.org/

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#105

Post by truncate »

dschiptsov wrote: post #89

Why on Earth people who aren't merely enthusiasts of "cool async JavaScript with V8" or those who began as a webdevs and knows nothing better than JS and PHP, could choose a single-threaded solution, which blocks the whole app if a single function blocks, and forces programmers to write spaghetti wrappers around asynchronous call-back hells in a non-functional but GC'ed language? I am really too stupid to get it. "Si…

I never worked much with JS, but from my experience I find it hard to imagine writing such a big application in JS. It is so easy to do things wrong in JavaScript. Weak types, global namespace, ambiguous and unexpected behaviours.

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#106

Post by mawburn »

owenversteeg wrote: post #61
dyeje wrote: post #3

It's funny that this showed up on the front page, because yesterday I logged into an old Yahoo email account for the first time in a few years and was absolutely astounded at how awful the UI was.

The UI has almost literally nothing to do with the backend technologies.

Unless you're unfortunate enough to be working GWT or something similar.

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#107

Post by romaniv »

twerquie wrote: post #94
loxs wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few reasons: 1. Cooperative multitasking. Really? In 2014? Hello? 2. Weakest of weak typing. undefined is not a function? Anyone? 3. Everyone can override everything. 4. Conventions, that's the only way you can build software in JS. Anyone know of a person who doesn't break conventions? Having programmed in something like Erlang, which IMHO is the sanest technology available today for doing web, JS feels horrible.

I'm no zealot, and don't think these are absolute truths by any means but I've worked extensively on enterprise solutions in both C#/.Net and Node.js and can respond to your points below. 1. It turns out the reactor pattern is a good way to build network servers that scale reasonably well with minimal developer effort. In my experience developers tend to avoid writing threaded code in synchronous languages, and threa…

I think your answers to 2-3 are not real answers. You're not giving an explanation that would convince someone who doesn't share your opinion. You're simply saying that you don't care about there concerns with nothing to demonstrate that your viewpoint is somehow more valid.

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#108

Post by billmalarky »

Igglyboo wrote: post #40
loxs wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, node.js is the new PHP. Not by how it works, but by "shit everyone uses". Now, I won't try to convince anyone that it's crap (while I do believe it is), but it's the modern crap technology. Welcome to 1998, we are all "modern".

node.js is the new PHP for hip web developers who read HN. It's still a relatively unheard of platform to most people and mocked by a lot as well. I love it though.

Disagree. It seems half the industry is moving to node in NYC. All the major publishers (NYC tech's bread and butter) are using it or switching to it.

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#109

Post by [deleted] »

davidw wrote: post #63
mootothemax wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you make some recommendations for Erlang IDEs? What's your typical day-to-day setup, and what's your workflow look like? I love Erlang and its concept, but the lack of friendly developer tools and easy testing put me off after the one successful (commercial) project I completed a couple of years ago. I'm all geared up to become an Erlang evangelist (particularly for the reasons you give - Node.js really does feel…

I use Emacs for Erlang development, and it works well - like it does with pretty much anything else.

[deleted]

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#110

Post by JetSpiegel »

cmicali wrote: post #96
dschiptsov wrote: post #89

Why on Earth people who aren't merely enthusiasts of "cool async JavaScript with V8" or those who began as a webdevs and knows nothing better than JS and PHP, could choose a single-threaded solution, which blocks the whole app if a single function blocks, and forces programmers to write spaghetti wrappers around asynchronous call-back hells in a non-functional but GC'ed language? I am really too stupid to get it. "Si…

One argument for one language everywhere is the benefits you get from an "isomorphic" app ( http://nerds.airbnb.com/isomorphic-javascript-future-web-app... ) Sharing code between client and server lets reduce duplication and use the same templating/rendering on both sides. Fits very well with complex single-page apps. That said, I'm not sure there are that many apps that really need this vs. the tradeoffs you have to…

Correct use of the scare quotes there.
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