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God's Lonely Programmer

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Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#291

Post by agumonkey »

anigbrowl wrote: post #102
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time his story comes up, there are people who respond with answers along the lines of "what can we do for him? can we find him assisted employment? can we raise money for him?" etc. While these comments are surely well intentioned, they end up being mostly condescending and out of place, as if talking about a completely helpless being. He is openly racist. He can't find a job on his own, unless it's among other…

That's a problem in the same way that Tourette's Syndrome often creates employment problems (some people with TS have an uncontrollable urge to swear a lot, a problem known as coprolalia - this can make it hard to get served as a customer in a store, never mind hold down a job). You gotta treat God as entertainment, mostly. He's not prophetic in this. I caution against latching onto any particular thing He says. If I…

I was about to ask this on reddit, Tourette is very awkward, borderline difficult, to witness (had a few classmates suffering it) because it's really tense and chaotic, but at the same time the randomness of it make it easily dismissible on the emotional side because it's not necessarily coherent. On the other side, comments that Terry can throw are so logical, they do pop randomly, disrupting his trail of thoughts, but it's far from bursts of slang and F-word, it means something. I can't wrap my head around that.

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#292

Post by davidw »

kstenerud wrote: post #163
davidw wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > Unable to work, he collects Social Security disability He's doing ok because the 'collective' takes care of him.

You say it as though it were a bad thing. He has money coming in, has a roof over his head, does fulfilling work, and from his description is quite satisfied with his life. Where is the problem?

I didn't think I put a negative spin on it. I was responding to the other person's rant about 'collectivists'.

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#293

Post by chipsy »

GuiA wrote: post #40

I'm a huge fan of Terry's work, because he works hard, has a clear vision for what he wants to do, and makes it happen. That's more than can be said of many self-professed hackers who never see a project to completion or are motivated solely by peer recognition. You may disagree with the logical coherency of his goals - I for one think the "temple for God" thing is pure kookery - but he is a master craftsman, and in…

The phrase that always comes to mind when speaking of disability, and creativity in the midst of mental illness, is "better to be hated than pitied."

There is something being said with TempleOS. We don't necessarily know what it is, because the premises employed are, as parent says, so divergent from society. If all we can get out of it is some mocking laughter and some anger and frustration with the author, so be it - that's far better than to dismiss the work and then push the agenda of "help this poor hopeless person live _normally_." He should be helped where it's reasonable to do so, of course, but that is primarily a problem to be dealt with by immediate friends, family, and institutions, not a bunch of strangers poking in at random.

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#294

Post by aaren »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #218
hueving wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"while non-white people struggle to find work in tech?", said nobody who has ever been in Silicon Valley.

The definition of "whiteness" in discrimination actually isn't very well correlated to skin color; e.g. Irish people until recently were considered to be "black", and in the UK, still kind of are. Some non-white people like Asians are often considered white in many contexts (like tech hiring in the USA). Try applying for a job in Beijing as a Uighur and even though your skin is whiter than Han, you are still going to…

> Irish people until recently were considered to be "black", and in the UK, still kind of are.

Is this from personal experience? If not, can you link me somewhere?

Do you mean sounds Irish / looks Irish / is Irish / is Catholic / something else or a mix of these?

I don't disagree with you (not sure either way tbh) but do have a personal interest.

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#295

Post by MrJagil »

daveloyall wrote: post #39
dunstad wrote: post #13

I find this guy's moments of clarity amazing. I'm not very familiar with mental illnesses in any form, but it surprises me how clearly he understands how the rest of the world views him. It makes me think about what the world might be like if we reverse the situation, and the article were about the only man who can't hear the voice of God.

> I find this guy's moments of clarity amazing. Oh, that's because: > I'm not very familiar with mental illnesses [...] :) Schizophrenics are frequently lucid. Well, a modified sort of lucid... It's as if they are rational folks for whom first principles or axioms have been shaken up, and indeed are malleable all the time. It doesn't sound like Terry would ever think that his dinner plate would sprout legs and walk a…

"But, their plausibility metrics are broken."

I know three Schizophrenics personally, and this comment hit the nail. Interestingly, they're all really into conspiracy theories, alien documentaries and the like. Though they might not really believe, it is clearly very fascinating to them.

One of them was really into this guy, if you want an example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Sheldrake Another one, this magazine (in Danish): http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/En_sk%C3%B8r_sk%C3%B8r_verden

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#296

Post by eivarv »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #234
eivarv wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a key difference between the worlds in question, though. As Philip K. Dick said: “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” Should the mentally ill not be offered ways to participate in reality, simply because we find fault with the world?

Interesting question. Is there a third option? Should there be? Are there other ways for them to "participate in reality" other than by getting a job and contributing to the economy? Look at the insanity in how we allocate resources and which activities we incent. People literally die as a result of our priorities. So, should we assume that he is better off by "joining us" and contributing to that reality? I don't kn…

Sorry; I think I mistook your comment for some sort of reality-relativistic sentiment by managing to ignore the context.

I agree that the most important factor here is not whether the person in question is able to work a traditional job and contribute to the economy. The way I see it, treatment and quality of life is what's important here.

Rather, I meant that he would likely be better off the closer to reality he got (i.e. the less his delusions impacted him), and that the delusional should not be patronized by allowing them their "eccentricities" and to remain in their own bubble (which now seems a moot point).

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#297

Post by DanielBMarkham »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #58
GuiA wrote: post #40

I'm a huge fan of Terry's work, because he works hard, has a clear vision for what he wants to do, and makes it happen. That's more than can be said of many self-professed hackers who never see a project to completion or are motivated solely by peer recognition. You may disagree with the logical coherency of his goals - I for one think the "temple for God" thing is pure kookery - but he is a master craftsman, and in…

Every time his story comes up, there are people who respond with answers along the lines of "what can we do for him? can we find him assisted employment? can we raise money for him?" etc. While these comments are surely well intentioned, they end up being mostly condescending and out of place, as if talking about a completely helpless being. He is openly racist. He can't find a job on his own, unless it's among other…

Racism is not a disease that requires or even invites our help. Sure, we're open to engage in civil discussion with racist people -- even try to gently persuade them of the error of their ways. But that's about it.

We live in a society where we're supposed to cherish and celebrate the fact that we're all unique (and broken) to a great degree. Not increasingly intervene to make us all the same.

So bring on the eccentric, racist, barely-functioning people. Bring on the people with poor and lavish backgrounds. Bring on the mean-spirited, the generous, the completely strange. The more true diversity -- diversity in outlook, worldview, and experience -- the better we all are. Rough edges and outliers are fine. We need 'em.

As far as finding a job, that's another discussion. As long as he is able to feed and house himself, through whatever means? Why do I care whether he has a job or not?

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#298

Post by cLeEOGPw »

lomnakkus wrote: post #100
mblevin wrote: post #38

Throughout the span of modern history, we've had gifted creators whose talent is at a minimum intertwined if not completely predicated on their mental illness. Whether it was Van Gogh or Kurt Kobain, we've seen it consistently. Terry is potentially one of the first if not the only creators of this type using a completely digital medium. TempleOS is essentially a 10-year art project.

Unfortunately, in years past, we only heard (in the mainstream) from the few that succeeded, not the huge numbers of individuals that just ended up in asylums or, worse, dead. That's not to take anything away from the "project" (as art), but let's be realistic about the possible gains we (as a society) can gain from this. My conjecture is that it would be better to try to get some help for this person.

Well, everyone eventually ends up dead.

And help him what? He is happy, doing the thing he likes. He doesn't look or sound like he would need help. Forcing him to make others' dreams come true (assuming by "help" you mean get him job) wont make him happier. His activity maybe is keeping him in check. Who knows what could happen if he's denied his single thing he enjoys.

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#299

Post by nl »

aaren wrote: post #294
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of "whiteness" in discrimination actually isn't very well correlated to skin color; e.g. Irish people until recently were considered to be "black", and in the UK, still kind of are. Some non-white people like Asians are often considered white in many contexts (like tech hiring in the USA). Try applying for a job in Beijing as a Uighur and even though your skin is whiter than Han, you are still going to…

> Irish people until recently were considered to be "black", and in the UK, still kind of are. Is this from personal experience? If not, can you link me somewhere? Do you mean sounds Irish / looks Irish / is Irish / is Catholic / something else or a mix of these? I don't disagree with you (not sure either way tbh) but do have a personal interest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment#21st_cent... provides some good starting points.

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#300

Post by mtrimpe »

jmduke wrote: post #89
MrBra wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're referring to him saying "nigger" multiple times, then I think that that to him is more like a a kind of a generic bad-word to go with, and that he's not actually using it in a true "racist" sense. Of course I agree that just using that word to insult someone classifies as racist, but so far I've never seen anywhere in his comments or rants that he actually argumented something against black people.

Quoting from the first page of @TempleOS's comments (censorship mine, of course): I spend my days clubbing retard-n s. CLUB! CLUB! DIE N ! CLUB! RETARD! N ! DIE!! CLUB! N ! Regardless of his mental state, this is not content that I want in any of my online communities.

One of the features of schizophrenia is creating new words for concepts without realizing how little they match up with other people's definition of those words.

For all we know Terry means nigger as referring to the religious concept of darkness and would insist it has nothing to do with skin colour.

I'm not saying that is the case here, but it very likely could be and I am saying that we're for more clueless when it comes to empathizing with people like Terry than we think we are.

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