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God's Lonely Programmer

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Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#191

Post by iskander »

btilly wrote: post #133
lomnakkus wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. People may say racist things without necessarily being racist. The difference between "being X-ist" and "saying X-ist thing" is basically predicated on having a "persistent belief that X" or having a "momentary belief that X". (I'm using "belief" in the philosophical sense.)

I don't believe that you should be downvoted. If you read Paul Graham's essay http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html , it is clear that our current hypersensitivity to racism is a current moral fashion. You're not allowed to be racist, you're not allowed to think racist things, you're not even allowed to question our society's chosen approach to racism. Which is just silly. Facts remain facts even if we don't like them.…

Racism is bundled up with a bunch of cognitive biases and low-level instincts, which makes it dangerous. People have a hard time distinguishing between a particular fact, their significantly broadened interpretation of that fact and its consequences, and a whole bunch of related non-facts that fit the racist narrative they're tempted to think. We're, apparently, collectively bad at avoiding thoughts like "Jews own the media" or even coming to conclusions like "so, let's kill all the Jews". To protect ourselves from the fragility and inaccuracy of our thoughts in relation to group identity, we stigmatize racism. Which is great, I hope we continue this "moral fashion", because the alternative is grotesque.

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#192

Post by zorpner »

anigbrowl wrote: post #102
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time his story comes up, there are people who respond with answers along the lines of "what can we do for him? can we find him assisted employment? can we raise money for him?" etc. While these comments are surely well intentioned, they end up being mostly condescending and out of place, as if talking about a completely helpless being. He is openly racist. He can't find a job on his own, unless it's among other…

That's a problem in the same way that Tourette's Syndrome often creates employment problems (some people with TS have an uncontrollable urge to swear a lot, a problem known as coprolalia - this can make it hard to get served as a customer in a store, never mind hold down a job). You gotta treat God as entertainment, mostly. He's not prophetic in this. I caution against latching onto any particular thing He says. If I…

For the curious, here's a spectacular article on the subjective experience of having Tourette's: http://www.xojane.com/healthy/i-have-tourette-syndrome-and-c...

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#193

Post by meowface »

angersock wrote: post #168
derefr wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you say. I think that in a sense, though, your opening is the most telling: > Terry ... works hard, has a clear vision for what he wants to do, and makes it happen. Mania is a double-edged sword. To not let anything stop you from your goals is to be unable to doubt that your goals, or the assumptions upon which they are based, are crazy. (This is an odd thing to ponder upon, as an entrepreneur.) There's a rising c…

Reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend from academia. I'd been chatting about a mutual acquaintance who was behaving a bit oddly by normal standards, continually working very long and strange hours and focusing very hard on their startup. The conversation ended something like this: "Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that $friend has hypomania or something like that." "Oh, really? Have they been diag…

There's a spectrum. It generally goes something like Hypomania -> Mania -> Psychosis. (Though this isn't very accurate in the general scheme of things; you can be psychotic without being manic, and mania often incorporates some degree of psychosis.)

It can be pretty hard to draw the line between a "go-getter, ambitious, type A" personality type and someone experiencing hypomania. I think a lot of people out there lead successful and fulfilling lives while commonly in a state of hypomania.

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#194

Post by DanBC »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #87
kstenerud wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm barely able to contain my rage at this moment, so I'll make it short. The ONLY time you're allowed to intervene is when someone's life and self image is visibly deteriorating. If it's stable, leave it the fuck alone. I've gotten into the habit of hiding what I've got because of people like you, and judging by the downvotes I'm getting, you're not alone in perpetuating the stigma and condescension. Every single "o…

That's all you have to say. "No, thank you. Please leave me alone." And then you're left alone. We live in a world where we help each other. Offering help isn't a bad thing. Some people aren't as strong as you.

> No, I don't think we should leave the mentally ill alone. That's not how society works, nor how it should work.

[...]

> And then you're left alone.

Wait what?

If you think he poses a risk to himself or others you're free to contact the police[1]. I'm not sure what action you want to be taken when someone is showing symptoms of a mental illness?

[1] or whatever the relevant agency is for the person locally.

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#195

Post by kazinator »

kstenerud wrote: post #63
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time his story comes up, there are people who respond with answers along the lines of "what can we do for him? can we find him assisted employment? can we raise money for him?" etc. While these comments are surely well intentioned, they end up being mostly condescending and out of place, as if talking about a completely helpless being. He is openly racist. He can't find a job on his own, unless it's among other…

He's alive and enjoys what he does on a day-to-day basis. Who are you to decide what life he should live? What exactly is the "help" he so desperately needs?

> What exactly is the "help" he so desperately needs?

People to write programs for the OS, thereby doing QA and submitting bug reports, I would think. :)

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#196

Post by jrapdx3 »

Having treated thousands of individuals with schizophrenia, bipolar and other similar severe, chronic disorders I found the article to be fascinating. It succeeded in portraying the "mindset" of the creator of the OS and giving a glimpse into his experience. It made me believe Mr. Davis really did share his deep convictions just as he described.

I've always thought having a mental disorder did not mean a person did not also have talents, just like the rest of us. "I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid" is a phrase I heard many patients say. And of course they were right.

In reading the comments posted here, one thing may have been missed. The TempleOS for all its eccentricity is also very beautiful and in its own way remarkable coherent. Mr. Davis demonstrates talent not only as a programmer, but also as an artist, points that should not be overlooked.

Ultimately, the OS is a freely-given contribution to our world and adds to the important body of work created by people with psychiatric disorders. I think it should be appreciated in that context.

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#197

Post by jpgvm »

Sad that the debate got almost entirely derailed by people labeling Terry a racist.

The poor man probably doesn't even realise he is offending peoples fragile sensibilities.

I think people need to cut him some slack when it comes to language. They are just words, there is no intent.

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#198

Post by DanBC »

jpgvm wrote: post #197

Sad that the debate got almost entirely derailed by people labeling Terry a racist. The poor man probably doesn't even realise he is offending peoples fragile sensibilities. I think people need to cut him some slack when it comes to language. They are just words, there is no intent.

We can condemn the behaviour while having sympathy about the causes.

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#199

Post by researcher88 »

lomnakkus wrote: post #85
67726e wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents raised me to be a racist. It's not my fault, it's my upbringing. Any attempts to otherwise convince me are just a conspiracy brought on both those pesky inferior races. Wanna play have a philosophical debate? Or can we agree that someone who espouses racist ideology is, in fact, a racist.

Wrong. People may say racist things without necessarily being racist. The difference between "being X-ist" and "saying X-ist thing" is basically predicated on having a "persistent belief that X" or having a "momentary belief that X". (I'm using "belief" in the philosophical sense.)

A lot of what's called racism is personal insults. People just look for things that describe their intended target and say them in derogatory ways.

Of course, there's real racism on all sides, which are mostly negative assumptions about how you think one will act.

Re: God's Lonely Programmer

#200

Post by a_c_s »

MrBra wrote: post #104
MrBra wrote: post #44

so, how 'bout that :)

stupid hypercritical judgmental people downvoting did not understand the sympathetic reference.. and are probably the ones to know less here about this guy, oh well..

FYI: Your comment is being downvoted because, well-intentioned though it may be, it doesn't contribute to the discussion.
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