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How I Learned the Smart Home Industry Needs to Change, part 2

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Re: How I Learned the Smart Home Industry Needs to Change, part 2

#11

Post by Zigurd »

debacle wrote: post #7

For many people, including me, the value proposition of Nest isn't worth the cost. There needs to be a modular middle ground between Apple level in-home automation software and unassembled kits. I don't see myself spending over $100 for a thermostat. Ever.

Wait until your thermostat wiring goes bad.

With a combination of hard-to-modify interior walls and an open plan design where wall-mounting often doesn't make sense, going with wireless thermostats was an easy choice.

Now the thermostat in the main living area can be moved depending on whether we are using the wood stove, and the kitchen thermostat that was always too far from the radiators and too close to the oven can be placed where it actually keeps us comfortable.

Unless your house is new-ish and thermostat placement was carefully considered, the benefit of being able to easily move a thermostat and experiment with placement can be enough of a benefit to justify relatively expensive thermostats.

Re: How I Learned the Smart Home Industry Needs to Change, part 2

#12

Post by S_A_P »

debacle wrote: post #7

For many people, including me, the value proposition of Nest isn't worth the cost. There needs to be a modular middle ground between Apple level in-home automation software and unassembled kits. I don't see myself spending over $100 for a thermostat. Ever.

In some cases, a Nest may not be a good investment. However, my home was built in the late 1970s where energy efficiency was not in the builders lexicon. I literally cut my electric bill by 50% with the nest vs the dial based thermostat that was included in the house. This paid for both of my nests in 2 months.(upstairs and down). Since then, I have saved that amount consistently all summer. Now I live in Houston, so saving AC as much as possible is a huge boon for me.

However, when its cold, I notice little to zero benefit from the nest. Keeping my house warm takes significantly more energy than keeping it cool(our AC units are relatively new and efficient, as is the furnace. However, the hot air just leaks right out of the ceilings into the air...

So IMO, there are cases where a Nest is worth it, and will pay for itself. ymmv though.

Re: How I Learned the Smart Home Industry Needs to Change, part 2

#13

Post by abruzzi »

My thermostat recently died so I had to replace it. Looking at my local Home Depot and Lowes, I could spend $300 for the Nest or $24 for programmable weekday/weekend device. I would have been happy to pay a premium for better technology, but a 12x premium was more than I was willing to go.

Additionally, the Nest would have only been used 3-4 months of the year. I live in the dry southwest and I use (and prefer) evaporative cooling. None of the all in one thermostats can control evap coolers. If Nest wanted to innovate, they could build a remote control box to add this functionality, then I might consider it a better value.

Re: How I Learned the Smart Home Industry Needs to Change, part 2

#14

Post by benihana »

debacle wrote: post #7

For many people, including me, the value proposition of Nest isn't worth the cost. There needs to be a modular middle ground between Apple level in-home automation software and unassembled kits. I don't see myself spending over $100 for a thermostat. Ever.

>I don't see myself spending over $100 for a thermostat. Ever.

If my thermostat could figure out the ideal time to heat and cool my apartment to maximize my comfort and minimize my cost without me having to mess with it, I would gladly pay $100 for it, even if the savings were less than the cost of the unit.

Re: How I Learned the Smart Home Industry Needs to Change, part 2

#16

Post by minikites »

S_A_P wrote: post #12
debacle wrote: post #7

For many people, including me, the value proposition of Nest isn't worth the cost. There needs to be a modular middle ground between Apple level in-home automation software and unassembled kits. I don't see myself spending over $100 for a thermostat. Ever.

In some cases, a Nest may not be a good investment. However, my home was built in the late 1970s where energy efficiency was not in the builders lexicon. I literally cut my electric bill by 50% with the nest vs the dial based thermostat that was included in the house. This paid for both of my nests in 2 months.(upstairs and down). Since then, I have saved that amount consistently all summer. Now I live in Houston, so…

But the Nest isn't competing with a dial thermostat, it's competing with a $20 programmable thermostat which will save you the same amount of money for 1/10th the cost.

Re: How I Learned the Smart Home Industry Needs to Change, part 2

#17

Post by ghaff »

feld wrote: post #10
wodenokoto wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see how insulation is easier to install than a nest, but other than that, it's a really interesting point of view. The nest really is the last item on the list when optimizing your heating bill.

Really? Automating turning off AC/Heat when you're not there saves a ton of money and is very low effort. Especially if you don't have a programmable thermostat at all. I cut my bill enough to cover the Nest in less than 3 months and I purchased it shortly after launch. For me it was the 80% and now I continue to work on fixing the rest of the problems with my AC/heat related costs.

Some level of programmability is probably worthwhile although you can get a lot of the same effect by manually turning the thermostat up and down which I do a lot anyway. And if I didn't have a programmable thermostat I might well spring for the extra dollars on the Nest if only for the cool factor. As it is I have a programmable thermostat that mostly works just fine. A lot of people are likely in that situation. I've thought of getting a Nest but there's some finite probability I'd run into installation problems and it is unlikely to save me much if any money.

Edit: I should mention it would be for heat only. I don't have AC.

Re: How I Learned the Smart Home Industry Needs to Change, part 2

#18

Post by furyofantares »

I love new gadgets but I need to be convinced that home automation gadgets are a lot more reliable than all the other tech I have before I go all in. I do not want to be surrounded by tech problems, I want to have some escape from that. I can have tech problems with almost all of my entertainment (except board games), with almost all of my productivity, and even when I exercise. I don't want tech problems just trying to stay warm and safe in my house any more often than I have to. I have a Nest protect that I took down when it spent a day going off incorrectly and I'm not sure I'll put it back up again.

Re: How I Learned the Smart Home Industry Needs to Change, part 2

#19

Post by joshuaheard »

The article didn't mention the biggest reason people aren't buying Nest, and the reason I didn't buy one: cost. The Nest thermostat runs around $200 - $250, while a basic thermostat can be had for around $20. It's the same for the Nest smoke detector: $99 versus less than $10 for a basic one. As one experienced in the real estate market, I can say that home builders usually go with the cheapest solution. And, I don't think consumers are going to rush out and spend 10x as much for something they already have, or are replacing, no matter how good it is.

Re: How I Learned the Smart Home Industry Needs to Change, part 2

#20

Post by DannyBee »

VLM wrote: post #3

Not sure I'd agree with "the general public does not see these products as easy to use or convenient as they’d hope" Redo the analogy and instead of a Nest promotional article comparing the Nest to other thermostats, compare to a nearly identical home improvement product like fiberglass insulation. After all, you're competing with every product on every shelf at Home Depot, not just smart thermostats, so this appears…

This is actually a really bad comparison.

Not just for the reasons other people mention (it require open walls, etc), but because you miss another serious issue:

Fiberglass insulation is, by and large, installed very badly.

Leaving even small gaps between the stud and batt (as most installers do), or compressing it too much (as most installers do) loses not an incremental amount, but instead almost 50% of the insulation value.

This is why open cell spray foam, even at the same r-value, does so much of a better job - it's less prone to installation error.

In any case, people often do not get the expected value from insulation, due to installation error.

It's like people who spend 15k on a new HVAC system, and then have them install the whole thing using flex duct. People don't know enough to know what "right" looks like.

By comparison, Nest requires almost no brains to install and use properly.

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