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2 years with Angular

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Re: 2 years with Angular

#71

Post by mattgreenrocks »

shubhamjain wrote: post #39

I can't speak of Angular since I haven't used it but one problem that is recurring with use frameworks, in general, is that thinking or getting used to "their" way takes a significant amount of time and seeing the continuous change of technology, I am not sure that time is justifiable in the longer run. Take example of rails. I was trying to learn it sometime ago and was really amazed how it has a process for nearly…

There's a term for minimal frameworks: libraries.

Ultimately, you should control the architecture of your application. When this is the case, you can develop abstractions around libraries that shield the rest of your code from their bugs, 'conventions', and error handling strategies.

Re: 2 years with Angular

#72

Post by cmdkeen »

gadr90 wrote: post #32
wldlyinaccurate wrote: post #29

I've worked on Angular projects of varying sizes -some as large as 30KLOC (products where every page has enough interaction to justify an Angular controller)- and I can never find myself agreeing with these articles. Have I just drunk too much kool-aid? Or is it possible that with the right team, the right architecture, Angular can actually be a really great framework to use? The common theme for every large Angular…

YES! Thank you! I think I'll die if I have to read another developer arrogantly defining what should and should not be, and how he, in all his glory, hereafter defines this framework to "NOT BE WORTHY". I can't stand how some articles simply s&*t on years of software architecture principles and the work of very talented engineers and simply dismisses them like it's nothing. If you disagree with a framework's perspect…

The Angular 2 presentation given recently at ng-europe made it clear that many of the fundamental parts of 1.x are not built on solid architectural principles, which is why they are killing most of them off.

I'd be interested to know how many of your large team were not experienced web developers before starting with Angular given that is one of the big criticisms in the article.

Re: 2 years with Angular

#73

Post by cmdkeen »

hassanzaheer_ wrote: post #14

While most of the arguments presented in this article are somewhat valid but I hope with the release of Angular 2.0 majority of the issues will be addressed (though does it make sense to make such drastic changes in the upcoming is another debate and already taken care of at: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8507632 ) I'm currently working on a comparatively large webapp built in Angular and it was after about 7…

Angular 2.0 seems to be a long ways off - to the point where the presenters wouldn't show actual code examples in their demos of it at ng-europe.

It rather makes me worry it is going to be the Python 3000 release all over again in terms of how much is changing.

Re: 2 years with Angular

#74

Post by mattgreenrocks »

atirip wrote: post #40
jMyles wrote: post #6

If Angular is not The Thing (a premise which I have no trouble believing), then what is a Good Thing to perform the task of, for example, consuming Django Rest Framework endpoints and making a frontend of them?

IMHO Good Thing is to have set of libraries and not a framework at all. Start with handcrafting all HTML,CSS with interactions you need. You HTML skeleton will depend greatly on what you want to achieve - like when one page changes to other and theres a ajax call between - where you put the wait screen: as separate, on old page, then wait, transit to new at once, then wait and so on. If that is done you know broadly…

Meta: digging the downvotes in lieu of actual discussion here. Stay classy.

Re: 2 years with Angular

#75

Post by [deleted] »

itomatik wrote: post #8
xpto123 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that says it all: the most framework specific part of the article are the links in the end to other articles. Its good to have feedback from the community, but I wish some of these posts would get down to the specifics, we would all benefit much more. Something like: "I tried to this (details) in Angular and it was difficult, tried to do it again with this other framework and it was much easier".

the author actually has a series of "Angular Bad" articles on his blog which are more or less specific: http://www.fse.guru/angular-bad-parts-part-1 http://www.fse.guru/angular-bad-parts-part-2 http://www.fse.guru/angular-bad-parts-part-3 http://www.fse.guru/angular-bad-parts-part-4 http://www.fse.guru/angular-bad-parts-part-5 http://www.fse.guru/angular-bad-parts-part-6

[deleted]

Re: 2 years with Angular

#76

Post by xpto123 »

itomatik wrote: post #8
xpto123 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that says it all: the most framework specific part of the article are the links in the end to other articles. Its good to have feedback from the community, but I wish some of these posts would get down to the specifics, we would all benefit much more. Something like: "I tried to this (details) in Angular and it was difficult, tried to do it again with this other framework and it was much easier".

the author actually has a series of "Angular Bad" articles on his blog which are more or less specific: http://www.fse.guru/angular-bad-parts-part-1 http://www.fse.guru/angular-bad-parts-part-2 http://www.fse.guru/angular-bad-parts-part-3 http://www.fse.guru/angular-bad-parts-part-4 http://www.fse.guru/angular-bad-parts-part-5 http://www.fse.guru/angular-bad-parts-part-6

If we boil this down it says: its a huge framework. it works but there is a big learning curve, and there are pitfalls. You might run into performance problems, you will need experienced people, you will have to know a lot about the inner workings of the framework to pull a big project off.

This could be said about any big framework: Spring, Hibernate, GWT, JSF the list goes on.

The conclusion of the author: because of this its not good enough and I don't recommend it.

But he is right about the bad parts, those are basically the reasons why Angular 2 will not be backwards compatible, although a migration will exist.

Re: 2 years with Angular

#77

Post by jacobr »

aikah wrote: post #63
jasim wrote: post #25

I recently wrote about my experience with Angular in a different forum. Sharing it here: I worked on Angular last year building an app with a few complex views. The initial days were full of glory. Data-binding was new to me, which produced much goodwill towards the framework. Things started falling apart as I had to inevitably understand the framework in a little more depth. They practically wrote a programming lang…

> But React is as much a framework as Angular is. Sure,the difference is React doesnt tell you how to organize your application.AngularJS does,you have to use dependency injection.I like it,some people dont. AngularJS is in no way perfect.But compared to other frameworks,Ember,Backbone,... In my opinion it's better. I personally dont like React because of JSX,I dont want to have to learn a JS superset,and i'll probab…

With React, the only thing a new developer joining your team needs to know to do their first UI change is:

- JavaScript - React.render - React.DOM.tagName(props, children)

I agree about JSX, because it introduces 1) general complexity, 2) steeper learning curve, 3) incompatibility with other tools.

But React works fine without JSX! Just structure your app properly with small components and DOM.div(...) isn't that noisy.

Re: 2 years with Angular

#78

Post by oinksoft »

cmdkeen wrote: post #73
hassanzaheer_ wrote: post #14

While most of the arguments presented in this article are somewhat valid but I hope with the release of Angular 2.0 majority of the issues will be addressed (though does it make sense to make such drastic changes in the upcoming is another debate and already taken care of at: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8507632 ) I'm currently working on a comparatively large webapp built in Angular and it was after about 7…

Angular 2.0 seems to be a long ways off - to the point where the presenters wouldn't show actual code examples in their demos of it at ng-europe. It rather makes me worry it is going to be the Python 3000 release all over again in terms of how much is changing.

I've not gotten the same impression and expect Angular 2 to be out sooner than later. Here's a code example: https://github.com/angular/angular/blob/master/modules/examp...

It looks like `master' is all Angular 2 and coming along well.

Re: 2 years with Angular

#79

Post by jrochkind1 »

oinksoft wrote: post #59

I've been using Angular on-and-off in professional settings since 2012. Angular is a framework obsessed with testability that treats usability as an afterthought. That said I've found Angular to be more than flexible enough to meet the needs of your typical CRUD apps, and generally enjoy working with it. One thing I agree with the author about is the importance of expertise for a successful Angular project. Some spec…

You say:

> That said I've found Angular to be more than flexible enough to meet the needs of your typical CRUD apps

The OP says:

> Are there any use cases where Angular shines?

> * Building form-based "CRUD apps".

So I guess you and the OP pretty much agree.

Re: 2 years with Angular

#80

Post by datashovel »

The thing I really like about Angular is it makes composition of complex ideas relatively easy. The encapsulation and dependency injection is perfect way to allow you to be as structured or unstructured as you want / need to be.

I can understand how someone coming from more traditional frameworks, and working in an environment where you are rarely or never required to think outside the box, will have difficulty making the transition.

Where I personally think Angular could be better (yet was state-of-the-art when it originally came out) is with directives. Now, I'm not talking about run-of-the-mill directives that are easy, that implement relatively straightforward concepts. I'm talking about highly complex functionality that you want to encapsulate into a single "thing" in your code. I think Polymer is going to fill that gap. That being said, Angular team has already (if it hasn't changed) decided they're going to be moving forward with Polymer.

Personally I think Angular + Polymer is going to be hard combination to beat.

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