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My boys love 1986 computing

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21–30 of 68 posts

Re: My boys love 1986 computing

#21
post #16

I initially gave my two girls an old desktop computer with a linux on it. They started to use it before I showed them how and they started figuring stuff out without me and soon I was sitting riveted in the background watching them discover things and trying to learn about computer UIs and work out how they thought. Here's an old blog post about it: http://williamedwardscoder.tumblr.com/post/19500788060/my-te... - I…

> Its sad but its true and I wish I knew what to do about it. For us that have already been spoiled by modern computing, we need to be shown what useful stuff that we can do by learning about computers (obviously we would need to be on a relatively open modern computer). If most people are satisfied with whatever gets them through the more-or-less intuitive GUIs that lets them watch some videos, do they really need t…

Personally, I think if you want to kindle interest in people that aren't traditionally considered tech people, the usual course of action goes from user to power user to novice programmer. It goes from using the most appearent options to using less appearent options that do it better to creating your own options and tools.

Say someone watched a lot of different streams. Show them how they can do it in VLC from one place. Show them enough that the utility of using VLC outweights using whatever method they used previously. Then, give them some time till usage of that tool becomes a habit. Then show them how to use the VLC command line options to record and convert streams so they can download them onto say their phone. Gently suggest "There's a rabit hole here, and it's filled with fun". Then give them some time to tinker around, see what they can do. Once they outgrow these shoes, when they're running out of cool addons they can install or when there's something that's just not in there yet, you can start to teach them how to write their own additions.

Now this is just a single example, but i think it illustrates the point. You want to help them slowly build momentum and a need for better tools. Most people are cocconed in a comfortable level of software usage, and they belive that their tools are sufficient, and learning more isn't going to be worth the returns in regards to effort. If you manage to sucessfully change those beliefs, their entire modus operandi regarding computers will change.

Now what tool and which lesson will get that started differs from person to person. For some it's learning VBA scripting for work, for other people it might be using Autohotkey to create macros or even learning some keyboard shortcuts ("Wait, alt-tab switches windows? That is so neat!"). Luckily, about everything that is commonly used has some kind of handy add on that extends functionality, say Reddit and RES, or getting that Junior Junior Dev to move from notepad to notepad++ and then after a good while to vim or emacs.

Re: My boys love 1986 computing

#22

I initially gave my two girls an old desktop computer with a linux on it. They started to use it before I showed them how and they started figuring stuff out without me and soon I was sitting riveted in the background watching them discover things and trying to learn about computer UIs and work out how they thought. Here's an old blog post about it: http://williamedwardscoder.tumblr.com/post/19500788060/my-te... - I…

Years ago my kids went through a similar progression.

I set them up with a really old, crappy PC running Linux. Taught them how to tinker around on the CLI and run Zork in an emulator. They had many hours of fun.

Then set them up on the Alice programming environment on the communal/family PC (running XP), and they had fun with that for a long while, too.

Once they had free internet access, my daughter discovered Hanna Montana videos on YouTube, and the self-learning pretty much ended. Ditto w/ my son and watching video game playthroughs, though he got a little more incidental learning about computers trying to tweak whatever rig he had access in order make games perform better.

However, the internet has really empowered my kids to learn all kinds of stuff. From my son setting up Minecraft servers and fighting with port forwarding on the home router, to my daughter learning sewing techniques and guitar chords online.

Today's PC environment has come a long way from my days of exploring arcane PEEK and POKE commands from the back of a magazine on my TI-99/4A (in between rounds of Munch Man, of course). There is so much more info accessible now (both utilitarian and trivial), that I just can't grouse about where most kids run with that info. In the end, I think my kids are way better off now than I was back then, even though they're not nearly as inclined to tinker under the hood as I was.

Re: My boys love 1986 computing

#23

I initially gave my two girls an old desktop computer with a linux on it. They started to use it before I showed them how and they started figuring stuff out without me and soon I was sitting riveted in the background watching them discover things and trying to learn about computer UIs and work out how they thought. Here's an old blog post about it: http://williamedwardscoder.tumblr.com/post/19500788060/my-te... - I…

Try getting them interested in things like the Arduino. Make it father-daughter time or something to teach them the basics there, to get them tinkering, get them poking at code and seeing results. Maybe get a codec chip to work with them on making a music player. Alternatively, maybe try poking them at scratch ( http://scratch.mit.edu/ ) to have them make their own things. One of the things that I think may be going…

I second the suggestion to get them to get started with simple hardware stuff. There's nothing nicer than getting your first little robot running.

I'd reccomend showing benefit first and then getting them to tinker with implementation, so you maybe want to preassemble the first one and demo it to them and let them play with it and program it once they're allready excited about the prospect of doing that.

Afterwards, I think the most sensible option would be to modify some lego 9V motors [shop.lego.com/en-DE/LEGO-Power-Functions-M-Motor-8883] to interface to an arduino motor driver shield. That way, they can tinker around with the structure of the robot as well, and legos lend themselves to creative tinkering.

Much later, you might want to get them into programming robotic arms or small quadrotors using C, but even if you get them intrested in it, it might take a while to get them to a skill level where they can do so.

Re: My boys love 1986 computing

#24

I completely agree with this. A lot of the games seem to appeal more too, because they've been written simply, with straightforward rules. The BBC Master (which my children love) was also a terrific platform to learn to program on. It's just a shame that a lot of the disk drives and disks haven't survived very well.

The Centre for Computing History runs school classes on BBC micros and Sinclair Spectrums which go down well with the children (& adults!) who take part: http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/pages/12058/Schools/

Re: My boys love 1986 computing

#25
I love 1986 computing too! Everything was so simple. Just a single thread of execution to worry about.

Then again, Javascript is also single-threaded essentially.

Thus, from another point of view it looks like we're stuck in the 80s...

Re: My boys love 1986 computing

#26
post #12

There is something about 1980's-era computers which make them so much more accessable to kids than today's systems. It's probably to do with how much simpler they are - if I can put my finger on it, I'd say it's because they don't have lots of Things which can tempt you to distraction; for example - if they had a web browser of some kind back then, you'd be tempted away from learning to program in BASIC, or learning…

I'm not so sure lack of distractions makes that much difference. I think on my C64 it was frequently the case that we'd switch games every few minutes. We were easily distracted with or without something specific to trigger it. But these computers were simple enough to "mess with" and get a mental model of the whole. By the time I was 7-8, I started "experimenting" with pulling chips out of sockets (to my parents hor…

I fried my first C64 pulling out dual-inline package chips while the power was on.

Re: My boys love 1986 computing

#28

I initially gave my two girls an old desktop computer with a linux on it. They started to use it before I showed them how and they started figuring stuff out without me and soon I was sitting riveted in the background watching them discover things and trying to learn about computer UIs and work out how they thought. Here's an old blog post about it: http://williamedwardscoder.tumblr.com/post/19500788060/my-te... - I…

I suspect internet access is what kills the joy of real work since you can be so easily distracted. Before you know it, one hour has passed and you didn't do anything.

I'm beginning to see a solution in a separate computer just for Internet access, as PG suggested several years ago. The one for work should just redirect everything to localhost or not have network access at all.

Re: My boys love 1986 computing

#30
post #12

There is something about 1980's-era computers which make them so much more accessable to kids than today's systems. It's probably to do with how much simpler they are - if I can put my finger on it, I'd say it's because they don't have lots of Things which can tempt you to distraction; for example - if they had a web browser of some kind back then, you'd be tempted away from learning to program in BASIC, or learning…

I'm not so sure lack of distractions makes that much difference. I think on my C64 it was frequently the case that we'd switch games every few minutes. We were easily distracted with or without something specific to trigger it. But these computers were simple enough to "mess with" and get a mental model of the whole. By the time I was 7-8, I started "experimenting" with pulling chips out of sockets (to my parents hor…

>I think on my C64 it was frequently the case that we'd switch games every few minutes.

Except when it took like 20 minutes to load a game from cassette.

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