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2 years with Angular

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Re: 2 years with Angular

#61

Post by andrewstuart2 »

swombat wrote: post #49

This seems to be the summary of every tech flame war ever, and applies rather well here: A: I've used tech X in a lot of Y contexts, and I find it's not great. I will generalise slightly imply that tech X is not the panacea that it has been presented as. B: Yeah? Well, I've used tech X in a lot of Z contexts, and I find it works fine! You're wrong! You're using it wrong! Maybe you're not wrong in context Y, but for m…

After T amount of time with technology X, I've discovered it to be imperfect.

Furthermore, I've found that it either let me shoot myself in the foot, or would not let me shoot wherever I wanted.

Re: 2 years with Angular

#62

Post by dasil003 »

Alex3917 wrote: post #57
jasim wrote: post #25

I recently wrote about my experience with Angular in a different forum. Sharing it here: I worked on Angular last year building an app with a few complex views. The initial days were full of glory. Data-binding was new to me, which produced much goodwill towards the framework. Things started falling apart as I had to inevitably understand the framework in a little more depth. They practically wrote a programming lang…

- Everything you need to know about Angular is explained in ng-book or the like. Trying to learn the framework by reading blog posts isn't going to work. There's just too much to know, and it's impossible to understand what's really going on unless it's presented in a logical and comprehensive way. - Angular isn't designed to render large tables. Go with DataTables for jQuery instead, or if you don't need all the fea…

Where is the disclaimer about data binding limitations? Tabular views with hundreds or even thousands of rows aren't inherently uncommon or non-performant. It's easy to sit here and say "wrong tool", but this is a pretty significant weakness IMO.

Re: 2 years with Angular

#63

Post by aikah »

jasim wrote: post #25

I recently wrote about my experience with Angular in a different forum. Sharing it here: I worked on Angular last year building an app with a few complex views. The initial days were full of glory. Data-binding was new to me, which produced much goodwill towards the framework. Things started falling apart as I had to inevitably understand the framework in a little more depth. They practically wrote a programming lang…

> But React is as much a framework as Angular is.

Sure,the difference is React doesnt tell you how to organize your application.AngularJS does,you have to use dependency injection.I like it,some people dont.

AngularJS is in no way perfect.But compared to other frameworks,Ember,Backbone,... In my opinion it's better.

I personally dont like React because of JSX,I dont want to have to learn a JS superset,and i'll probably wont like AngularJS 2.X because of atscript either,wether it's mandatory or not(understanding exemples on the web will make it mandatory).

Re: 2 years with Angular

#64

Post by gadr90 »

jasim wrote: post #38
gadr90 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YES! Thank you! I think I'll die if I have to read another developer arrogantly defining what should and should not be, and how he, in all his glory, hereafter defines this framework to "NOT BE WORTHY". I can't stand how some articles simply s&*t on years of software architecture principles and the work of very talented engineers and simply dismisses them like it's nothing. If you disagree with a framework's perspect…

I am always conflicted about writing about Angular on a negative light because the team has put some great work into it while raising the bar in how rich apps could be built on the web. Being a back-end developer for a long time, it let me build some great interfaces on the front-end really quickly, and I'm very thankful for that. But we should also learn from where Angular succeeded and where it failed. Making XML d…

Finally, a respectful and well founded analysis. Thank you for improving the quality of the debate.

My 2 cents: I actually prefer the declarative approach. My attempts at imperative view generation resulted in far more shooting-on-the-foot. Naturally, this is the very specific conclusions of me and my team, not the entire human race. I always think you should try both!

Also, I'm a huge fan of Polymer, which is also very much declarative. Going to use Angular instead of Polymer simply because of better project structure and browser support.

Re: 2 years with Angular

#65

Post by hassanzaheer_ »

andrewstuart2 wrote: post #53
hassanzaheer_ wrote: post #14

While most of the arguments presented in this article are somewhat valid but I hope with the release of Angular 2.0 majority of the issues will be addressed (though does it make sense to make such drastic changes in the upcoming is another debate and already taken care of at: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8507632 ) I'm currently working on a comparatively large webapp built in Angular and it was after about 7…

I think around 7 months into any project you start to realize the pitfalls of whatever technology you're using. You've done the easy things after 7 months, and the hard things are always going to be hard.

True. And like any other framework one can work around the bad parts by developing custom solutions, but Angular's one of the main features are its two-way binding which also happens to create one of the biggest performance bottlenecks as the application scales up. This can be fixed easily (bindonce is just one example) though it leaves Angular with little value.

Re: 2 years with Angular

#66

Post by [deleted] »

atirip wrote: post #40
jMyles wrote: post #6

If Angular is not The Thing (a premise which I have no trouble believing), then what is a Good Thing to perform the task of, for example, consuming Django Rest Framework endpoints and making a frontend of them?

IMHO Good Thing is to have set of libraries and not a framework at all. Start with handcrafting all HTML,CSS with interactions you need. You HTML skeleton will depend greatly on what you want to achieve - like when one page changes to other and theres a ajax call between - where you put the wait screen: as separate, on old page, then wait, transit to new at once, then wait and so on. If that is done you know broadly…

[deleted]

Re: 2 years with Angular

#67

Post by xpto123 »

swombat wrote: post #49

This seems to be the summary of every tech flame war ever, and applies rather well here: A: I've used tech X in a lot of Y contexts, and I find it's not great. I will generalise slightly imply that tech X is not the panacea that it has been presented as. B: Yeah? Well, I've used tech X in a lot of Z contexts, and I find it works fine! You're wrong! You're using it wrong! Maybe you're not wrong in context Y, but for m…

I agree, the article is very generic. It would be more helpful if its something, like I've tried to do this and it didn't work well, make it concrete.

Some of these very high level statements could be made on any technology.

Re: 2 years with Angular

#68

Post by robin_reala »

dynjo wrote: post #54

We built a pretty complex app with Angular ( https://slimwiki.com ) and have had nothing but great experiences. The main issues are no guidelines about the right/wrong way to do things, it needs to be more opinionated.

That’s been my biggest problem with Angular too; I’d love some more opinions.

Re: 2 years with Angular

#69

Post by jasim »

aikah wrote: post #63
jasim wrote: post #25

I recently wrote about my experience with Angular in a different forum. Sharing it here: I worked on Angular last year building an app with a few complex views. The initial days were full of glory. Data-binding was new to me, which produced much goodwill towards the framework. Things started falling apart as I had to inevitably understand the framework in a little more depth. They practically wrote a programming lang…

> But React is as much a framework as Angular is. Sure,the difference is React doesnt tell you how to organize your application.AngularJS does,you have to use dependency injection.I like it,some people dont. AngularJS is in no way perfect.But compared to other frameworks,Ember,Backbone,... In my opinion it's better. I personally dont like React because of JSX,I dont want to have to learn a JS superset,and i'll probab…

You can use React without JSX. It is especially easy if you are using CoffeeScript which makes the syntax quite terse.

I personally like JSX. It is more of a variant of Javascript that lets us mix HTML into JS seamlessly. It was inspired from XHP (https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-engineering/xhp-a-ne...), a PHP extension developed and used by Facebook that lets PHP understand XML. I think that the cross-pollination of this idea into React might be one of the best things to have happened to front-end development in the recent past.

JSX is different from HTML in a few simple ways (http://facebook.github.io/react/docs/jsx-in-depth.html):

- All HTML attributes are written in lowerCamelCase, like so: contentEditable, maxLength etc. React has a wonderful "is this what you meant?"-style warning system for when we slip-up on these details. More on HTML attributes in JSX is here: http://facebook.github.io/react/docs/tags-and-attributes.htm...

- You can't use `class` to denote CSS class names. It is always `className`. You are going to forget this as you copy-paste a FontAwesome icon definition or Bootstrap snippet into the project and wonder what went wrong. But practice makes perfect.

- If you want to write inline styles, the style attribute should be written as a Javascript hash (it is actually a blessing in disguise). React documents it here: http://facebook.github.io/react/tips/inline-styles.html.

I haven't found any other incidental quirks in JSX, and it integrates nicely with Javascript in practice. It is however different from the way things have always been done, which can be a good reason for resistance.

Re: 2 years with Angular

#70

Post by aidos »

aikah wrote: post #63
jasim wrote: post #25

I recently wrote about my experience with Angular in a different forum. Sharing it here: I worked on Angular last year building an app with a few complex views. The initial days were full of glory. Data-binding was new to me, which produced much goodwill towards the framework. Things started falling apart as I had to inevitably understand the framework in a little more depth. They practically wrote a programming lang…

> But React is as much a framework as Angular is. Sure,the difference is React doesnt tell you how to organize your application.AngularJS does,you have to use dependency injection.I like it,some people dont. AngularJS is in no way perfect.But compared to other frameworks,Ember,Backbone,... In my opinion it's better. I personally dont like React because of JSX,I dont want to have to learn a JS superset,and i'll probab…

"I personally dont like React because of JSX,I dont want to have to learn a JS superset..."

What do you gain from that? You don't like it because you haven't really given it a go because you'd have to learn something new? JSX is very low resistance to learn. Not that you have to use it; it's worth learning it because it makes you more productive.

I use Angular for my main product, but chose to go with React for a new small sub-product to see how it worked. I learnt JSX, I learnt how you should do things. I followed something similar to the Flux patterns in the time I had available. Now, I feel in a much better position to make an informed choice in the future. Using React helped me to appreciate the things Angular does well, it also showed me areas where things could be done better.

There isn't a 'better' framework in either case. You need to understand the tradeoffs to know where one or other is going to be a good fit. This is always the case in software.

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