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Ask HN: Can we talk about Linux vs. OS/X?

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Ask HN: Can we talk about Linux vs. OS/X?

#1
A lot of web programmers I meet use OS/X on Apple hardware. I see none of them deploying on OS/X however. Despite I hear about OS/X being part of the *nix family, I can't comprehend why it can't be used as a server OS, e.g. on AWS. Anyone has ideas why OS/X isn't good for servers (except hardware compatibility). I'm curious about OS/X init system, package managers, support for databases, web server sw, network stacks etc.

If there are good reasons for it, why people use it on development machines? Isn't that loss of precious brain cells to learn inadequate stuff for server development?

Re: Ask HN: Can we talk about Linux vs. OS/X?

#2
On the desktop side, a good UI on OS X compensates for a mish-mash of inefficient and insecure technology on the backend side of things (legacy tech, mix of ..ix/Mach/Next/MacOS).

On Linux/FreeBSD it's typically the other way around; no matter how optimized and clean the back end is (relative to OS X), nobody seems to be able to put together a great working desktop standard UI supporting modern hardware.

Hopefully somebody will be able to provide a good free desktop on top good *ix platforms like Linux/FreeBSD etc, but all the people who held their breath died a long time ago.

The OS X packages like Homebrew and MacPorts make it very easy to run most of the standard backend stuff on OS X while developing, which means many developers prefers to work on modern proper functioning hardware while still deploying on standard Linux servers and similar.

In addition technologies like virtualization, Chef/Puppet/Docker etc support additional workflows which allow testing server work locally on OS X before deploying on Linux or similar.

Re: Ask HN: Can we talk about Linux vs. OS/X?

#3
Licensing would be the number one reason. Also, I think the devotion to OSX and Apple hardware amongst startups and web programmers is sort of like a survivor bias. You don't hear anything from web programmers and general software developers that work at the Fortune 500 on what they use.

One piece of tech that makes the OS of your PC irrelevant is Vagrant and VM software (and other similar). Build locally but use the same OS as your Production environment.

Re: Ask HN: Can we talk about Linux vs. OS/X?

#4
post #2

On the desktop side, a good UI on OS X compensates for a mish-mash of inefficient and insecure technology on the backend side of things (legacy tech, mix of ..ix/Mach/Next/MacOS). On Linux/FreeBSD it's typically the other way around; no matter how optimized and clean the back end is (relative to OS X), nobody seems to be able to put together a great working desktop standard UI supporting modern hardware. Hopefully so…

Ubuntu is pretty close, really. Everything that's needed is better drivers, but unless Canonical makes it's own hardware that's never going to become a resolved issue.

Re: Ask HN: Can we talk about Linux vs. OS/X?

#5
post #4
post #2

On the desktop side, a good UI on OS X compensates for a mish-mash of inefficient and insecure technology on the backend side of things (legacy tech, mix of ..ix/Mach/Next/MacOS). On Linux/FreeBSD it's typically the other way around; no matter how optimized and clean the back end is (relative to OS X), nobody seems to be able to put together a great working desktop standard UI supporting modern hardware. Hopefully so…

Ubuntu is pretty close, really. Everything that's needed is better drivers, but unless Canonical makes it's own hardware that's never going to become a resolved issue.

The major issue with Linux only development is the lack of proprietary software. Photoshop, for instance. There is also some great Mac-only software, meaning a Mac runs the widest variety of software of any OS - since you can run Linux, Windows and more in VMs.

Finally, Mac provides a much nicer UI experience than any Linux so far. That won't change for the foreseeable future given the grab bag of UI technologies Linux apps use.

Re: Ask HN: Can we talk about Linux vs. OS/X?

#6
I used to work on Ubuntu since 10.04 but I saw no future with it (lots of bugs, error reports,...) I tried many other distros (Mint, CentOs, Fedora) everything was like everything .. Last summer I bought a Macbook Retina and switched to OS X, result is good hardware and software. I installed my Linux things ZSH,Git,LAMP,Node,... + proprietary stuff like MS office, Adobe apps, which is nice because you use best of both worlds + you get Mac specific apps like Alfred which really worth it. So my point is my computer is my life I don't only code on it, I prefer a nice UI/UX while having a perfect Unix environment, I still use Vagrant for advanced stuff though. Linux distros are a mess they should collaborate and come up with a good ergonomic and CONSISTENT desktop environment rather than add a menu button and call it a new version. On servers nothing beats Linux/BSD no argument there.

Re: Ask HN: Can we talk about Linux vs. OS/X?

#7
post #2

On the desktop side, a good UI on OS X compensates for a mish-mash of inefficient and insecure technology on the backend side of things (legacy tech, mix of ..ix/Mach/Next/MacOS). On Linux/FreeBSD it's typically the other way around; no matter how optimized and clean the back end is (relative to OS X), nobody seems to be able to put together a great working desktop standard UI supporting modern hardware. Hopefully so…

> compensates for a mish-mash of inefficient and insecure technology on the backend side of things. . . no matter how optimized and clean the back end is (relative to OS X)

I'm not sure that's really an accurate characterization of OSX. In terms of security, I don't see where there have been any great number of exploits attacking the kernel (XNU) or userland (mostly FreeBSD) layers. Recent high-profile vulnerabilities like heartbleed were hardly OSX specific. I'm also not sure that those layers can really be called inefficient relative to Linux. Mach was a great deal more modular in terms of separation of concerns as compared to Linux (good for cleanliness/security, but never had great performance). However, with their XNU kernel, they seem to have made some of the same tradeoffs as Linux with respect to pure microkernel separation of concerns.

OSX has also done, in my opinion, a good job of rethinking parts of the traditional Unix infrastructure that needed rethinking. Check out JKH's talk about FreeBSD and potential future directions, and see how much that is informed by his experience leading the Unix technologies group at Apple (for the record, JKH was also one of the cofounders of FreeBSD, so he's not exactly a slouch): http://youtu.be/Mri66Uz6-8Y

I'd say the biggest reasons OSX never took off as a server OS are 1) licensing 2) coupling to Apple hardware 3) most of Apple's value-add is for desktops, laptops, and smaller portables--in other words, not compellingly better than other free nixen on the server 4) other nixen focussed on integrating the Chef/Puppet/Docker/virtualization/etc tech that you mention makes life for sysadmins easier.

Re: Ask HN: Can we talk about Linux vs. OS/X?

#8
post #6

I used to work on Ubuntu since 10.04 but I saw no future with it (lots of bugs, error reports,...) I tried many other distros (Mint, CentOs, Fedora) everything was like everything .. Last summer I bought a Macbook Retina and switched to OS X, result is good hardware and software. I installed my Linux things ZSH,Git,LAMP,Node,... + proprietary stuff like MS office, Adobe apps, which is nice because you use best of bot…

I personally don't care much about the desktop environment as long as it doesn't take up a lot of resources.

I mean all I really need is a panel at the top of my screen with a calendar/clock and couple of indicators/applets (battery, network, sound, email) and some kind of file manager, system configuration is usually easier done by just editing the conf files directly.

That said, I agree that the Desktop Environment situation in Linux is just bonkers, a lot of time and effort has been invested in a bunch of different DE's, each being used by a good chunk of the user base and new ones pop up every now and then just adding to the fragmentation.

Re: Ask HN: Can we talk about Linux vs. OS/X?

#9
post #2

On the desktop side, a good UI on OS X compensates for a mish-mash of inefficient and insecure technology on the backend side of things (legacy tech, mix of ..ix/Mach/Next/MacOS). On Linux/FreeBSD it's typically the other way around; no matter how optimized and clean the back end is (relative to OS X), nobody seems to be able to put together a great working desktop standard UI supporting modern hardware. Hopefully so…

> but all the people who held their breath died a long time ago.

We started being able to breath again when Ubuntu was released. It's far from perfect but so's OS X.

Re: Ask HN: Can we talk about Linux vs. OS/X?

#10
post #2

On the desktop side, a good UI on OS X compensates for a mish-mash of inefficient and insecure technology on the backend side of things (legacy tech, mix of ..ix/Mach/Next/MacOS). On Linux/FreeBSD it's typically the other way around; no matter how optimized and clean the back end is (relative to OS X), nobody seems to be able to put together a great working desktop standard UI supporting modern hardware. Hopefully so…

I see Android as the future of the linux desktop.
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