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Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

parkerhiggins.net

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Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#61
post #9

I heard her make remarks in a similar vein at the Washington State Book Awards in 2006: http://jakeseliger.com/2006/10/28/le-guin-at-the-seattle-pub... . Incidentally, though, I think this no longer true: "Developing written material to suit sales strategies in order to maximize corporate profit and advertising revenue is not quite the same thing as responsible book publishing or authorship." It's now easier than eve…

not if you want actual wide readership, as opposed to theoretical wide readership. Ask a blogger!

A friend of mine self-published her first novel early this year, sold 40K copies so far, and is doing very well with presales for the next. Most of her sales are on Kindle. She's friends now with a lot of other self-published authors who are also doing quite well.

So I wouldn't say people need publishers anymore for wide readership.

Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#62
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a typical view around here. Obviously to Le Guin they are more than that. But what would one of the great writers of our time, approaching the end of her life, know about that?

She's very good, but great? I don't know about that. I've really enjoyed many of her books, but at heart they seem to me to be the books of an author who isn't particularly conscious of her privilege level in the world. Furthermore she never really seemed to move beyond a very American-centric strain of 60s radical politics in her thinking and aesthetics. If you're a certain type of American, I'm sure you could be co…

That's surprising because in every one of her stories I've read, there is a stark awareness of racial, social and class differences. She is one of the most aware authors I can think of. She writes about differences between men and women, the rich and the poor, capitalists and socialists, leaders and servants, personal family events and large-scale world events.

I am not American and your comment comes across as very pigeonholing. What other part of the human audience do you wish she'd speak to?

Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a list of "Best-sellers initially rejected", though. Not quite the same as quality initially unrecognized. Some of them could still be books of low quality, that happen to be popular.

Nobody has found a reliable metric to determine the quality of art, not even close, other than what others are freely willing to pay for it.

"not even close"

Really? Because while Metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes are far from perfect, they are quite useful in pointing out movies that have more rather than less quality.

Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#64
post #41
post #17

Sorry, I admire her writing, but I call complete and utter bullshit on this speech. Books are commodities, not some magical elixer from the gods. Some are good, some are terrible. I buy mine from Amazon and Audible. New technologies, and they are helping more people to read more books than ever before.

Even from a hardcore free market perspective, you can't really say books are a commodity, insofar as they they have limited substitutability. There is no way to make up for quality with volume. You can't just take a masterpiece of human literature and say: "Suppose the Ulysses was never written by James Joyce, well I can just have the same utility by producing 10^9 pages of teen Twilight fan fiction".

But I think that's my point, although I didn't express it very well. I happen to be reading Ulysses right now - amazing book. But what about Danielle Steel's books? They're also books, right? There's a tremendous range, so I don't think we can have these blanket statements that books are special and that we need protection against companies like Amazon.

Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#65
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Capitalism" is a system in which people are allowed to exchange and accumulate goods freely. Moving to a system "outside of capitalism" involves preventing this, and necessarily involves large scale violence both to take the accumulated capital of savers and to persecute anyone who still seeks to engage in the free exchange of goods. See for example the merchants in Maoist China and Stalinist Russia who were hung or…

"Capitalism" is a system in which people are allowed to exchange and accumulate goods freely. That's what the word means. But our capitalism? The one we have? It's not that. It's not optimal. It's not efficient. It's not even fair. But then, the then-accepted concept of "Divine Right of Kings" was never what it purported to be either, was it?

> But our capitalism? The one we have? It's not that. It's not optimal. It's not efficient. It's not even fair.

There's no "our capitalism". You either have it or you don't. You mean "our political system". Feel free to find a name for it. Capitalism is taken, it means voluntary trade and savings. Stop listening to politicians trying to smear Capitalism. Wake up.

Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#66
Thanks for a great post! I'm a big fan of Le Guins fiction, as well as her commentary and critique of literature as commodity.

Another great (anti-capitalist) novelist who I admire, China Mieville, touched on some similar topics in his keynote speech at the Edimnburgh International Book Festival a few years ago: http://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/aug/21/china-mieville-...

"But who decides who qualifies as a writer? Does it take one sonnet? Of what quality? Ten novels? 50,000 readers? Ten, but the right readers? God knows we shouldn't trust the state to make that kind of decision. So we should democratise that boisterous debate, as widely and vigorously as possible. It needn't be the mere caprice of taste. Which changes. And people are perfectly capable of judging as relevant and important literature for which they don't personally care. Mistakes will be made, sure, but will they really be worse than the philistine thuggery of the market?

"We couldn't bypass the state with this plan, though. So for the sake of literature, apart from any- and everything else, we'll have to take control of it, invert its priorities, democratise its structures, replace it with a system worth having.

"So an unresentful sense of writers as people among people, and a fidelity to literature, require political and economic transformation. For futures for novels – and everything else. In the context of which futures, who knows what politics, what styles and which contents, what relationships to what reconceived communities, which struggles to express what inexpressibles, what stories and anti-stories we will all strive and honourably fail to write, and maybe even one day succeed? "

Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Those are reasonable examples of what it takes to try to "force" an entire country out of capitalism "for their own good". Socialism as a part of a general economic or ethical philosophy - embedded within the liberal democratic system - is not quite as bad on its own. The fundamental ideas behind the movement led to things like universal public education, national investment in the sciences and arts, as w…

>Well, I can't see it happening in a scarcity society, but I can imagine it happening in a post-scarcity one. The thing is, scarcity in the economic sense is defined in terms of peoples' wants, which seem to be able to expand indefinitely. Short of discovering an infinite energy source, there will never be enough energy to completely satisfy everybody's wants. So a method will be needed of deciding whose wants get sa…

> So a method will be needed of deciding whose wants get satisfied.

There are other alternative methods besides exchange and coercion. One is gifting or Potlatch. [0]

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potlatch

Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#68
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She is talking about moving to a new system outside of capitalism, not causing a dip in profits for one particular company.

"Capitalism" is a system in which people are allowed to exchange and accumulate goods freely. Moving to a system "outside of capitalism" involves preventing this, and necessarily involves large scale violence both to take the accumulated capital of savers and to persecute anyone who still seeks to engage in the free exchange of goods. See for example the merchants in Maoist China and Stalinist Russia who were hung or…

> "Capitalism" is a system in which people are allowed to exchange and accumulate goods freely.

That is neither what the term was coined to describe nor what actual historical systems described with the term have been. If you look at both the specific systems the term was coined to refer to and the historical systems it has referred to (and the specific policies, even that haven't been actually implemented, advanced under the banner), I think there are a couple of defensible short rough definitions that apply well in general (though neither matches perfectly with any popular articulation of capitalism, including that by the socialist critics who coined the term -- the first, based on means, is closest to that typically espoused by proponents [though it strips away the fuzzy term "freedom" for the more concrete description underlying the capitalist understanding of freedom] and the latter, based on cui bono intentionality, is more like that typically espoused by critics:

1. "Capitalism" is a feature of a politico-economic system which is exists in a system to the degree to which that system favors fee simple property rights as the basis for allocating power.

2. "Capitalism" is a feature of a politico-economic system which is exists in a system to the degree to which that system seeks measures and maximizes social benefit weighted by the magnitude of the fee simple property holdings of those participating in the system.

Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#69
post #9

I heard her make remarks in a similar vein at the Washington State Book Awards in 2006: http://jakeseliger.com/2006/10/28/le-guin-at-the-seattle-pub... . Incidentally, though, I think this no longer true: "Developing written material to suit sales strategies in order to maximize corporate profit and advertising revenue is not quite the same thing as responsible book publishing or authorship." It's now easier than eve…

The problem with Le Guin's position is that it's so Manichean, a world composed of good guys and bad guys with no ambiguities. To her, it's either sell books like deodorant or some ideal system where it's quality, not marketability, that makes books sell. This sounds good, but it's tripe. As you say, the Internet in general and Amazon in particular have opened up publishing -- Amazon getting huge credit because it no…

I think in all fields of artistic endeavour there is a tension between what is good and what is commercially successful. Sometimes the two overlap, but often they don't.

And often I think some "bad" art tries to claim integrity because it is unsuccessful commercially.

Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Well, I can't see it happening in a scarcity society, but I can imagine it happening in a post-scarcity one. The thing is, scarcity in the economic sense is defined in terms of peoples' wants, which seem to be able to expand indefinitely. Short of discovering an infinite energy source, there will never be enough energy to completely satisfy everybody's wants. So a method will be needed of deciding whose wants get sa…

> The thing is, scarcity in the economic sense is defined in terms of peoples' wants, which seem to be able to expand indefinitely. It's unclear to me whether this is true. For most of history, "infinitely expanding people wants" was not a thing, at least in terms of material wants. Maybe because it was not believed to be possible? But there are plenty of examples of autocratic rulers in pre-industrial times who extr…

> For most of history, "infinitely expanding people wants" was not a thing, at least in terms of material wants.

Economics addresses material wants exclusively, but with a broader view than many people take when informally using the term "material wants". The only situation in which economic scarcity would not exist in the general sense would be if there was no good, service, or change in condition which would improve experienced utility for any person.

Further, with real people rather than the basically omniscient beings modeled by rational choice theory, to have a non-scarcity society in any meaningful sense, you'd need instead for their to be no good, service, etc., which any person would expect, even irrationally to increase their experienced utility.

To be a non-scarcity society with regard to a particular good, service, etc. (or any class of such good, service, etc.), requires the same thing (for either the theoretical and practical interpretations as above), but only within the class of goods, services, etc. of interest.

While there's certainly evidence that there may be a certain level of wealth -- which a number of people in the modern developed world reach or far exceed -- beyond which increasing wealth has no net positive impact on experience utility on average, I don't think there's any evidence that at any point in history there has been an society that is non-scarcity either in the actual sense of no actual capacity for improved utility from increased supply of goods, services, etc., or the practical sense of no expectation of improved utility from such things. There's certainly times where economic growth was not the norm and so expectations didn't expand as rapidly, but infinite wants doesn't mean that expectations are infinite, its that more goods (even in excess of expectations) won't satiate the desire for even more goods on top of that.

> people are more motivated by status and recognition than material wants...

Status and recognition are basically services provided by other people in exchange for something done for those other people -- they are economic goods, even though they may generally be the subject of fairly informal exchanges that are harder to attribute monetary value than more formal (even barter) exchanges.

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