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Systemd redux: The end of Linux

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Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux

#101

Post by digi_owl »

pnathan wrote: post #48
Mikeb85 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so terrible (literally the devil incarnate, sacrifice your offspring now) that it's already been adopted by: - Arch Linux - Fedora/RHEL - openSUSE/SLES - Mageia - NixOS - CoreOS - Sabayon - Debian and Ubuntu in the near future > Everything I read about SystemD is negative. Negative on the technology, negative on the people who created it. Nothing positive. There's a vocal group that seem to think it's some Red H…

Well, in fairness, I did have a RH chap tell me to my face several weeks ago that Linux needs to replicate the Windows registry model and stop using the /etc text file approach. So I have a certain sympathy for the idea of Red Hat conspiracy (what is a company anyway but a conspiracy to produce work & products for hire?).

Only "reason" i could think of for going registry is so that it could be wrapped in an ACL.

Yep, the Windows registry has its own ACL. Was bitten by that when trying (naively) to move an account's files between Windows installs. Logged in and found myself back at default settings, and changes not applying.

I wonder if this shift in mentality has something to do with the M-I contracts.

Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux

#102

Post by digi_owl »

jude- wrote: post #38
zobzu wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you dont have to use journald. you can send back from journald to syslog (eg rsyslog) and that works well/its easy to do. You can even disable the journald logging itself and just have rsyslog (or the logger of your choice). at my place we kept both journald and have rsyslog to redirect logs to the network. ie our /var/log is relatively empty (rsyslog isnt setup to log to disk) so we look at log on the machine via jo…

> you dont have to use journald. you can send back from journald to syslog That's a contradiction. You're running journald even if it's dead weight.

And if journald goes belly up, no logs for syslog...

Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux

#103

Post by simoncion »

sandGorgon wrote: post #66
nisa wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean this Kay Sievers? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/04/05/torvalds_sievers_dus... - It's basically the buddy of Lennart at Red Hat - at least that is my impression from far away.. systemd may be nice but it's coming from Redhat and cgroups are changed due to because systemd folks wanted it that way as far as I followed that debate...

Yes, we are veering dangerously close to Godwin's Law : not only is Lennart and systemd evil, but everyone who agreed or contributed to it.

Sievers appears to be an unreasonable dick. Gunderson announces to the world that systemd's DHCP client is pretty damn cool. In the same post, he puts out a call for interested volunteers.

Ted Lemon (the author and maintainer of ISC DHCP from its inception to 2003 [0]) asks for the location of the project's source repo. Sievers replies with a LMGTFY link that doesn't even answer Lemon's question. Lemon politely criticizes Sievers for his rude and unhelpful answer. Sievers fails to even apologize.[1]

Both Sievers and Poettering have pretty serious attitude issues. It's one thing to lambast a peer who frequently fails to meet the potential that they've demonstrated in the past. It's entirely another thing to try to score social points with your callous indifference and blinkered bullheadedness.

[0] https://www.isc.org/downloads/dhcp/

[1] Check the first few comments of: https://plus.google.com/+TomGundersen/posts/eztZWbwmxM8

Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux

#104

Post by digi_owl »

johnny22 wrote: post #41
gnufied wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read over Wikipedia page of systemd, you will find out - it just does not replace `init` system, but whole lot more. Systemd is a collection of 64 binaries which manage login daemon, networking (DHCP) etc. In other words to some it seems like lot of not-so-tested software replacing software that was well tested. from an outsider perspective two things seem problematic: 1. A lot of Linux software worked on prin…

it was tested enough to ship in redhat enterprise linux 7.

RH still offers support for RHEL6, and will do so for years to come. It will be interesting to see how quickly 7 gets adopted outside of cloud instances.

Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux

#105

Post by matthewmacleod »

Really bored of this nonsense at this point. Take this for example:

If you absolutely MUST run Linux, my recommendation is to minimize the interaction with the base distro as much as possible. CoreOS (when it’s finally baked and production ready) can bring you an LXC based ecosystem

Systemd is absolutely key to how CoreOS works. It's the basis for the distributed init system it provides — a major selling point.

Taking any of this blog's advice would be harmful. I'd suggest a better approach would be to accept that the majority of distributions have settled on systemd and that generally this decision has not been made by idiots. So it would be worth either understanding what their pain points are and how they can be solved with an alternative to Systemd, or to help solve the issues that are apparently in Systemd yourself.

Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux

#106

Post by digi_owl »

fapjacks wrote: post #82
johnny22 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it was tested enough to ship in redhat enterprise linux 7.

Lennart Poettering works for Red Hat, btw.

I sometimes wonder if the whole systemd push is a "gottcha" in the direction of Oracle and their RHEL clone.

Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux

#107

Post by not_with_retard »

frozenport wrote: post #81

I used Gentoo for 10 years, and I can't figure out how to get a Systemd configuration working with XFCE. Indeed, most of the existing documentation has greatly slowed me down.

That's pretty sad, I was able to get it up-and-running on my first Gentoo installation.

I guess time doesn't equate to knowledge, eh?

Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux

#108

Post by digi_owl »

agrover wrote: post #91
baldfat wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TL;DR systemd is winning the developer mind share. Things being built like Gnome which require SystemD thus most things will need systemd.

Gnome needs a dbus api that currently only systemd supports, which is not quite the same thing.

With the irony that Poettering was the guy to pull the plug on the alternative. And alternative that could live on top of any init out there.

Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux

#109

Post by [deleted] »

stock_toaster wrote: post #79
derengel wrote: post #23

Are there any reliable VPS providers that offer FreeBSD?

There are quite a few. Some decent ones I have heard good things about: * rootbsd.net * arp networks * vultr There are quite a few cheap-ish dedicated server vendors out there that can either be ordered with FreeBSD or provide some means to install it yourself.

[deleted]
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