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Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

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Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#31

Post by WalterBright »

biot wrote: post #25
jseliger wrote: post #9

I heard her make remarks in a similar vein at the Washington State Book Awards in 2006: http://jakeseliger.com/2006/10/28/le-guin-at-the-seattle-pub... . Incidentally, though, I think this no longer true: "Developing written material to suit sales strategies in order to maximize corporate profit and advertising revenue is not quite the same thing as responsible book publishing or authorship." It's now easier than eve…

Despite Amazon's open platform, I'm fairly sure that her phrase: "We just saw a profiteer try to punish a publisher for disobedience..." refers to Amazon's conflict with Hachette.

The irony is the statement applies equally even if you switch the roles of Amazon and Hachette!

Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#32

Post by davedx »

vixen99 wrote: post #26
clebio wrote: post #16

> We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable. So did the divine right of kings.

What a bizarre connection! Disputing the divine right of kings had to be a private act or you faced the consequences; you and I, the consumers, ultimately decide the fate of the millions of businesses that constitute the system we call capitalism within a free market.

She is talking about moving to a new system outside of capitalism, not causing a dip in profits for one particular company.

Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#33

Post by alexqgb »

bhrgunatha wrote: post #19
wstepp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gift of the artist is to express ideas that are in the air of a particular time, but have not yet been articulated. So it is inevitable that a cultural upheaval would have its origins in the art of a culture, even if it is not easy to draw a direct corollary. The art does not effect the change, except maybe in exceptional circumstances, it only expresses what is already in the air. You don't have to look very har…

I think you've expressed my question a bit clearer than I did. Does art cause change or reflect change that is occurring? I think it's probably more like a feedback loop rather than a simple cause and effect with both reflecting and reacting to the other.

Art is often where change first appears, but it's also where change starts to figure itself out; to find a syntax and a vocabulary. In this sense, it's more than just a reflection, it's an agent - which is not to say it's causing the change, so much as channeling it.

It can also go the other way by leading us away from things. 1984 is the classic example of a work that gave people the tools - in the form of language and images - that they could use to describe all manner of disturbing developments that could take place within heavily centralized, industrialized nations. Dystopian visions are now so deeply engrained that any efforts to move government in that direction meet an immediately negative response.

Like the immune system, they don't block everything. But they block enough for us to know we'd be in very bad shape without them.

Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#34

Post by tehwalrus »

jseliger wrote: post #9

I heard her make remarks in a similar vein at the Washington State Book Awards in 2006: http://jakeseliger.com/2006/10/28/le-guin-at-the-seattle-pub... . Incidentally, though, I think this no longer true: "Developing written material to suit sales strategies in order to maximize corporate profit and advertising revenue is not quite the same thing as responsible book publishing or authorship." It's now easier than eve…

not if you want actual wide readership, as opposed to theoretical wide readership. Ask a blogger!

Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#35

Post by Uhhrrr »

WalterBright wrote: post #29
jseliger wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was rediscovered after WW1, becoming a great classic of American literature. There's also an open question about the book's intrinsic merit versus the need at the time to "discover" American literature and find exemplary American texts of the sort that were needed to instil a sense of unity in a country of disparate immigrant groups. Menand discusses some of this in The Marketplace of Ideas: Reform and Resistance…

Having read the book myself, I'm confident it has a lot of intrinsic merit.

Yeah - I avoided it for a long time because of its reputation as a paperweight, but it's a great, multilayered, witty book.

And it's unencumbered by copyright, so there's little reason not to give it a go.

Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#36

Post by Symbiote »

alexqgb wrote: post #33
bhrgunatha wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've expressed my question a bit clearer than I did. Does art cause change or reflect change that is occurring? I think it's probably more like a feedback loop rather than a simple cause and effect with both reflecting and reacting to the other.

Art is often where change first appears, but it's also where change starts to figure itself out; to find a syntax and a vocabulary. In this sense, it's more than just a reflection, it's an agent - which is not to say it's causing the change, so much as channeling it. It can also go the other way by leading us away from things. 1984 is the classic example of a work that gave people the tools - in the form of language…

For anyone in London, it's worth seeing the Disobedient Objects exhibition at the V&A, "this exhibition is the first to examine the powerful role of objects in movements for social change. It demonstrates how political activism drives a wealth of design ingenuity and collective creativity that defy standard definitions of art and design."

It's free.

http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/exhibitions/disobedient-objects...

Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#37

Post by riffraff »

bhrgunatha wrote: post #4

> Resistance and change often begin in art, and very often in our art—the art of words. I never really studied history in any depth. Do you think this is just hyperbole? By which I mean is she simply overstating or exaggerating the role of art in historic events? Am I taking it too literally - that art is the first step towards cultural upheaval? Can anyone give some examples of art effecting some kind of huge social…

IMO, no, it's false, it just sounds _so_ good.

There is obviously a feedback loop, but that doesn't mean that change begins in art. Art is, like everything else, as much a factor as a product of the growing mindset changes.

You can certainly find examples, but if you think about it, 99% of the art didn't cause any shift.

Is the US socialist after "The Grapes of Wrath", or has race become less of an issue after "To Kill a Mockingbird"?

Was the history of Spain very influenced by Picasso being a communist, or portugal by Pessoa being anti-catholic?

Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#39

Post by kitsune_ »

sxcurry wrote: post #17

Sorry, I admire her writing, but I call complete and utter bullshit on this speech. Books are commodities, not some magical elixer from the gods. Some are good, some are terrible. I buy mine from Amazon and Audible. New technologies, and they are helping more people to read more books than ever before.

This is ironic because you could apply the same statement to issues like open-source software, walled gardens and net neutrality. To the regular joe, the issues we talk about as developers on here hardly matter, yet as a people actually writing the software, we tend to be of the opinion that we know better.

I.e. re a typical speech by rms:

"Sorry, I admire his coding, but I call complete and utter bullshit on this speech. Programs are commodities, not some magical elixer from the gods. Some are good, some are terrible. I buy mine from Apple's or Google's app stores. New technologies, and they are helping more people to consume software than ever before."

Re: Ursula K. Le Guin at the National Book Awards

#40

Post by WalterBright »

Uhhrrr wrote: post #35
WalterBright wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having read the book myself, I'm confident it has a lot of intrinsic merit.

Yeah - I avoided it for a long time because of its reputation as a paperweight, but it's a great, multilayered, witty book. And it's unencumbered by copyright, so there's little reason not to give it a go.

One thing I like about Amazon is their large selection of classics like this, formatted for the Kindle, at $0.00.
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