I used Gentoo for 10 years, and I can't figure out how to get a Systemd configuration working with XFCE. Indeed, most of the existing documentation has greatly slowed me down.
Systemd redux: The end of Linux
81–90 of 464 posts
Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you read over Wikipedia page of systemd, you will find out - it just does not replace `init` system, but whole lot more. Systemd is a collection of 64 binaries which manage login daemon, networking (DHCP) etc. In other words to some it seems like lot of not-so-tested software replacing software that was well tested. from an outsider perspective two things seem problematic: 1. A lot of Linux software worked on prin…
it was tested enough to ship in redhat enterprise linux 7.
Lennart Poettering works for Red Hat, btw.
Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Server admins have so much new technology to learn and play with to stay relevant. If they feel like learning systemd is a chore, they might be in the wrong business.
All the more reason to be judicious in what new technologies are introduced. One of the huge benefits of the Unix/Linux, CLI, and Free Software traditions is that they tend to be very strongly preserving of established knowledge . Changes are incremental, usually additive, a reliance on scripting means that interfaces are unlikely to change, and new tools are very frequently drop-in replacements for old. As specific…
Wow, great comment -- and one that all who endeavor to innovate in systems should take to heart. As my former colleague Bart Smaalders was fond of saying, "the hardest software to upgrade is the software in our brains"; when inventing new abstraction, it must be done so sparingly and (as much as reasonable) by leveraging extant notions. This isn't merely to allow a technology to be readily understood (though that too, certainly); it also requires thinking in terms of reinvention versus reuse. This thinking enforces a kind of humility: you must learn about the systems that have come before, if only to understand which of their abstractions can be reused. I think it is a perceived lack of this kind of humility in systemd that has been so alienating for those who have a long history with Unix: it's not as if other approaches are being rejected so much as they are not being considered at all.
Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux
#84The ignorance in this post runs deep.
For example:
Speaking of zones and Solaris, if that’s an option for you it’s probably the best of breed stack right now.
Does the author have no idea what's going on with Solaris? Hint: Nothing. Nothing is going on with Solaris, because Oracle doesn't care about Solaris. They closed the source, and now push out the occasional minor update from on high for their enterprise customers. Anyone who is suggesting Solaris as an alternative to Linux at this point in history is simply not credible.
Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux
#85I'm on my way out the door right now, but I remember there being a theory that the NSA/CIA/top level org, in bed with Redhat, wants to kill (take over) Linux, so they use Lennart and Kay, the puppets, to get it done.
Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux
#86The ignorance in this post runs deep . For example: Speaking of zones and Solaris, if that’s an option for you it’s probably the best of breed stack right now. Does the author have no idea what's going on with Solaris? Hint: Nothing. Nothing is going on with Solaris, because Oracle doesn't care about Solaris. They closed the source, and now push out the occasional minor update from on high for their enterprise custom…
Curious logic you have. "It doesn't have a constant stream of fixes. That proves it's no good. Things that need fixing are better than things that don't need fixing".
Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's so terrible (literally the devil incarnate, sacrifice your offspring now) that it's already been adopted by: - Arch Linux - Fedora/RHEL - openSUSE/SLES - Mageia - NixOS - CoreOS - Sabayon - Debian and Ubuntu in the near future > Everything I read about SystemD is negative. Negative on the technology, negative on the people who created it. Nothing positive. There's a vocal group that seem to think it's some Red H…
> The fact that the article says that Solaris is the 'best of breed stack right now' That well-known paragon of SysV systems 8)
I'm a bit confused, was that sarcasm? Doesn't Solaris use SMF and not SysV?
Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux
#88The ignorance in this post runs deep . For example: Speaking of zones and Solaris, if that’s an option for you it’s probably the best of breed stack right now. Does the author have no idea what's going on with Solaris? Hint: Nothing. Nothing is going on with Solaris, because Oracle doesn't care about Solaris. They closed the source, and now push out the occasional minor update from on high for their enterprise custom…
Curious logic you have. "It doesn't have a constant stream of fixes. That proves it's no good. Things that need fixing are better than things that don't need fixing".
Software maintenance matters. A lot. Particularly for networked systems.
Also, it hasn't been Open Source in several years. That makes Solaris utterly irrelevant in my world. This blog post is suggesting Linux users move to Solaris. It's just a bizarre recommendation, made as an off-the-cuff assertion with no reasons given.
Also, Oracle. What hacker chooses to be beholden to Oracle?
Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Server admins have so much new technology to learn and play with to stay relevant. If they feel like learning systemd is a chore, they might be in the wrong business.
All the more reason to be judicious in what new technologies are introduced. One of the huge benefits of the Unix/Linux, CLI, and Free Software traditions is that they tend to be very strongly preserving of established knowledge . Changes are incremental, usually additive, a reliance on scripting means that interfaces are unlikely to change, and new tools are very frequently drop-in replacements for old. As specific…
Exactly that. You know what's insanely great? When you watch this presentation video of 1978 at AT&T where Ken Thomson explains Unix and type some commands on his VT-52 and you think: all of this is still current knowledge, and all of his explanations still hold true. Just like celestial mechanics or Pythagorean theorems. We are heirs of this ancient wisdom and this is friggin good, this is culture.
Re: Systemd redux: The end of Linux
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Curious logic you have. "It doesn't have a constant stream of fixes. That proves it's no good. Things that need fixing are better than things that don't need fixing".
Software maintenance matters. A lot. Particularly for networked systems. Also, it hasn't been Open Source in several years. That makes Solaris utterly irrelevant in my world. This blog post is suggesting Linux users move to Solaris. It's just a bizarre recommendation, made as an off-the-cuff assertion with no reasons given. Also, Oracle. What hacker chooses to be beholden to Oracle?
Solaris is dead but Illumos lives on kinda.