Earlier quoted context omitted.
The decisions were largely separate. The goal of having a CA was to leave us the option of selling commercial plugins in the future. We no longer plan to do that so we got rid of it. Separately, we kept hearing that the GPL is a hurdle to adoption at some companies so we switched to MIT.
Why not adopt the Eclipse Public License (EPL), which is the license used for Clojure/Script and the majority of open source Clojure libraries? http://opensource.org/licenses/EPL-1.0
Light Table 0.7.0
61–70 of 109 posts
Re: Light Table 0.7.0
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Personally, I will not contribute to something that's GPLed unless it's really important project - the Linux kernel for example. I know a lot of other developers that think the same.
Why?
The general argument in favour of the GPL and similar restrictive licenses is that it's not possible to extend GPL code without distributing your extensions under the same license (where the exact definition of "distribution" and "extension" is the main difference between LGPL, GPL and AGPL). It's largely about "us" (the Open Source community) vs "them" (the corporations, who historically don't contribute to open source).
In practice there is a vast body of open source code licensed under permissive licenses like MIT, BSD or Apache already and companies are releasing their open source projects under these licenses all the time. Even without the GPL, open source is here to stay.
On the other hand many companies now dual-license their projects under the GPL and a commercial proprietary license, with the GPL version being often intended as a "demo" to advertise the often very expensive but non-viral proprietary license (see Sencha for a perfect example of this approach). The ability of other GPL projects to make use of these projects under the GPL license is more of a side-effect (and free advertising) than an altruistic intention.
I think this has to do with the general shift in how we think about copyright today. Restrictive ("Copyleft") open source licenses subvert copyright to create a shared commons (which everybody can use but nobody can own). Permissive open source licenses abandon most of the copyright by just limiting it to an attribution policy and some basic cover-your-ass legalese (thus creating something everybody can use and own).
Re: Light Table 0.7.0
#63I really dislike how so many editors bind the evaluation/compile/menu key to ctrl + space or ctrl + shift. On the default multilingual key setting on windows, it is especially annoying when you want to run the code but instead your typing language changes to chinese
I think that's more the fault of windows than anything else. I mean, why do I need a shortcut key for changing language? I'm going to do that so often I need a shortcut do I? Nope. Always turned off for me.
Re: Light Table 0.7.0
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many people, even some lawyers, don't understand the GPL. :/ It elicits this kind of knee-jerk reaction in people.
Let me provide another viewpoint: many people don't understand the GPL, and any criticism of it elicits a knee-jerk reaction. I've been in discussions about problems with the GPL in several companies already. The real problem is not (as most people tend to think) the requirement to provide source code and the rights to modify and redistribute it. The problem is the patent claim landmine that is considered to be dange…
Re: Light Table 0.7.0
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
The important point is that they have a CLA and that one contains copyright assignment. The company behind LightTable holds all rights on your contributions. As the copyright holder, they can change the license however they wish.
Well, a good CLA should prevent them from going non-free.
Also, what is "non-free"? Some FOSS advocates would say that they just did that, because it now allows building non-free derivatives for everyone without user-rights to the source.
Re: Light Table 0.7.0
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are definitely correct that some of the aversion is a knee jerk reaction and misunderstanding, but that aside, the MIT license is very end user friendly, more understood than the GPL, and more permissive to the end user, plus we kept hearing from folks that that's what they wanted, so we switched.
BSD is _developer_ friendly, not end-user friendly. In this case, your end users are developers, though... The GPL sacrifices developer freedoms for end-user freedoms. I don't think it's any inherently more or less free. But then you get into discussions of what 'freedom' means... I have written a ton of software licensed as each, and the tide is certainly turning toward the BSD. It just bums me out.
For the end-user it's irrelevant what license a product uses. They buy a polished, boxed product; they don't download source code, set up the code's build requirements and then compile it.
The only practical benefit of open source products for the end-user is that there may be forks of it which could have an impact on the price (although a product is more than just its source code, so they may not even be interchangeable). Or that someone could pick it up if the original developer abandons it. But these are theoretical long-term benefits, not immediate ones like those for developers or the code itself.
I'm not saying the GPL is bad. Just that people often misunderstand its motives. The GPL is about code in the same way PeTA is about animals. If the humans benefit directly from it, that's great, but the primary motivation is an ethical absolute: code should be free, locking it behind proprietary licenses is against its nature.
Re: Light Table 0.7.0
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not adopt the Eclipse Public License (EPL), which is the license used for Clojure/Script and the majority of open source Clojure libraries? http://opensource.org/licenses/EPL-1.0
The EPL is incompatible with GPL, so you lose another group.
Does Light Table's new MIT license insulate developers from EPL-GPL compatibility concerns that might arise from the EPL'd pieces (Clojure/Script, et al.) used to build it?
Re: Light Table 0.7.0
#68What issue could possibly exist for using a GPL editor? It's not being shipped from a company...
Yeah, I did not get that either. I also do not understand why the GPLv3 would necessitate a contributor agreement, but MIT would not. I always thought those agreements were necessary so that one institution has copyright and can change the license without getting approval from every author. That applies to any free license, doesn't it? Anyway, I think they just wanted to change to MIT before new authors commit withou…
Obviously this also means we can't move from MIT now either, but it wouldn't really make sense to, since you can't practically add restrictions to already published code. (Strictly speaking I think you could still use LT under the GPL if you wanted).
Re: Light Table 0.7.0
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, a good CLA should prevent them from going non-free.
"Good" is a definition that differs, depending of the side you are on. Also, what is "non-free"? Some FOSS advocates would say that they just did that, because it now allows building non-free derivatives for everyone without user-rights to the source.
Re: Light Table 0.7.0
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Good" is a definition that differs, depending of the side you are on. Also, what is "non-free"? Some FOSS advocates would say that they just did that, because it now allows building non-free derivatives for everyone without user-rights to the source.
Who claims that releasing software under non-copyleft licenses like MIT and BSD is non-free?
The point is that the free software movement views things from the end-users perspective: the user is entitled to see and use the source of every binary blob they get delivered and use. That's an important point of the GPL. FOSS is all about freedom for users.
MIT allows the _developer_, who is not necessary the user, to modify the source, build a binary blob and deliver that to users without ever letting them see the source. The freedom from the users perspective is 0, except those that the developer gives them in their terms of service. MIT is all about freedom for developers.
Which one is the "free" your CLA aims for?
The ambiguity problem with using the term "free" is a well-known issue.