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Senator Al Franken's Letter to Uber [pdf]

franken.senate.gov

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Re: Senator Al Franken's Letter to Uber [pdf]

#61

Post by downandout »

thinkling wrote: post #52
downandout wrote: post #38

This is officially the most blown-out-of-proportion story in the history of the Internet. When was the last time the US Senate got involved after you went on a rant at a party? I'm certain that Sarah Lacy is enjoying both the attention and the money from pageviews, but this is getting ridiculous.

I get that people sometimes say stupid things after two or three glasses of wine. And I get that blabbing about something is different from actually doing it. But this was egregiously beyond the boundaries of basic ethics and societal values, and a company executive should know better. So you may think it's overblown, but I'd like Uber to feel that this is not OK, so it got me to finally install the Lyft app which I'…

So you may think it's overblown

I think it's the most absurd thing I've ever heard. I don't know if you read Sarah's actual article, but it reads as if this guy called her up and told her that he was going to murder her children. It is that sentiment, not facts about what actually happened, that has carried this "story" so far. She is exploiting others' fears about stalking and sexism for her own personal gain. IMO, that makes her far more evil than anything Uber could or would do.

Re: Senator Al Franken's Letter to Uber [pdf]

#62

Post by snowwrestler »

[deleted] wrote: post #55
NamTaf wrote: post #31

I note that many of the questions are around the processes, training, rules, etc. that govern the use of technology developed by Uber. This is important. Systems Engineering teaches the concept of POSTED: People, Organisation, Support, Training, Equipment and Doctrine. When a system is developed, it must give consideration to all of these aspects. Failing to do so means you design an incomplete system. In this case,…

[deleted]

The letter was obviously written by one of his 30+ staff; probably the staffer referenced by name at the end. It's mostly a summary of news reports...not rocket science.

Re: Senator Al Franken's Letter to Uber [pdf]

#63

Post by imjk »

debacle wrote: post #48
imjk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep hearing this argument that the barrier to entry is so low for an Uber competitor, but I think people massively underestimate the difficulty of successfully running a system like Uber. Here in Boston where Uber has wide adoption, I just watched a competitor with an impressive team (Hailo) fold up shop as they struggled to gain traction and compete. Where are all these other competitors that are going to come al…

The hailo model seems very different from the Uber/Lyft model. More upscale, so I'm guessing a higher barrier to entry for drivers (and it looks like a smaller driver pool).

I find this ironic. When I used Hailo in Boston, it actually only integrated with taxis then moved to private drives. Uber on the other hand, contrary to what you're saying, started with only black cars then shifted to include taxis, and eventually UberX.

Re: Senator Al Franken's Letter to Uber [pdf]

#64

Post by debacle »

kjksf wrote: post #45
debacle wrote: post #28

It seems like a lot of things are coming home to roost right now for Uber. As with many things, I think that Uber is the first player in an arena where the second player tends to survive (because they learn from all the first player's mistakes for free, the groundwork is laid, etc). The barrier to entry for an Uber competitor is quite low and trust is the only thing that keeps Uber afloat. If they don't realize that…

The "low barrier to entry" is repeated on every Uber story and I don't get it. It's a business with a very strong network effects: you need both sides of the market because without drivers, users are not interested and without users drivers are not interested. Uber seems to have a big lead over competition here, is growing like crazy and they raised insane amounts of capital so that they can grow faster than competit…

> you need a great iOS app

> you need a great Android app

Neither of these is rocket surgery. Good devs can create an app very quickly, especially if your directions are "clone this other app."

> you need a backed that is both fast and has rock solid 24/7 reliability. it can't be like Twitter in early days

So you need something that isn't node + redis + mongo + riak running heroku through cloudflare. This is also quite easy.

> you need to become a payment processor that interjects itself between users and drivers, which I'm sure comes with its own set of legal and logistic challenges * and you need to do it internationally

> and you need a massive operation team whose job is to onboard new drivers (recruit, train, supervise)

> you need a legal team because every state can have different rules

> and you need them also internationally

The beauty of all of these things is that Uber has already done many of them for you. Unless they have all of their drivers under NDA (possible, but unlikely) and haven't published any of that informaton on their website, you're going to profit from hundreds of thoussands if not millions of dollars of legal work that Uber has already done for you. It's not as simple as a sed script on a legal document, but it's way (way way) easier than starting from scratch.

The best part is that your drivers can also be Uber drivers, so you don't need the volume that Uber has today - you can slowly build up both sides of your market as long as the friction for drivers is minimal and the ease for users is equal or better.

Is it easy? Fuck no. Is it about 1000% easier for you now that Uber has done all of the hard work? Hell yes.

Re: Senator Al Franken's Letter to Uber [pdf]

#65

Post by laurencei »

[deleted] wrote: post #60
dworin wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Senators also have dozens of staff members who support them, especially on issues they're passionate about or committees they're involved in. And the committees themselves have their own staffs. Most likely one of these staff members is both deeply familiar with these specific issues and contributed heavily to this letter.

[deleted]

He's saying that with that many aids and resources, these letters can be produced extremely quickly if the Senator asks for it.

Re: Senator Al Franken's Letter to Uber [pdf]

#67

Post by yummyfajitas »

kjksf wrote: post #45
debacle wrote: post #28

It seems like a lot of things are coming home to roost right now for Uber. As with many things, I think that Uber is the first player in an arena where the second player tends to survive (because they learn from all the first player's mistakes for free, the groundwork is laid, etc). The barrier to entry for an Uber competitor is quite low and trust is the only thing that keeps Uber afloat. If they don't realize that…

The "low barrier to entry" is repeated on every Uber story and I don't get it. It's a business with a very strong network effects: you need both sides of the market because without drivers, users are not interested and without users drivers are not interested. Uber seems to have a big lead over competition here, is growing like crazy and they raised insane amounts of capital so that they can grow faster than competit…

Building a few pretty apps is hardly a barrier to entry. It might be beyond the reach of a single founder bootstrapping but it's quite reasonable to build with a small VC investment.

Note that autowale.in (an Uber competitor, currently profitable) was started on an investment of about 30 lac - roughly speaking 1 year runway for 3-5 engineers. Various tricks: start in 1 city, do the onboarding manually, and ignore the legalities until you are big enough to be noticed.

Autowale.in dealt with the bootstrap issue directly buying inventory from drivers. I.e. autowale.in pays the driver for 20km each day, and then tries to find customers to use that inventory.

The major barrier to entry here is the fact that Uber is really good. But if Uber decides to exploit their market condition and rip people off, that will change.

Re: Senator Al Franken's Letter to Uber [pdf]

#68

Post by snowwrestler »

A_COMPUTER wrote: post #8

So, I completely agree with this letter, but I felt a sense of unease reading it. I realized why. Other companies are as bad or worse about privacy, where are all those letters? I wish there were a lot more of these and wonder if the only reason this one exists is because the blowup with Uber was so visible and so it can be used for political posturing.

These types of letters do get sent to other companies. Here's one from Franken to some obscure app company from February:

http://www.franken.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=2699

Here's one to Google from Markey:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/googles-pl...

Here's one to the FTC about Facebook from Warner:

http://www.warner.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/pressreleases?...

Here's one from Schumer to Zuckerberg:

http://www.schumer.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=324221

Here's one from Blumenthal and Franken to Social Intelligence (never heard of them before):

http://www.blumenthal.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/blum...

I found all these by Googling something like "senator letter [company name] privacy". Most don't get covered here because they are typically routine pandering by politicians that doesn't change anything. (As is this letter IMO.)

Re: Senator Al Franken's Letter to Uber [pdf]

#69

Post by [deleted] »

smt88 wrote: post #17
w4 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my reaction as well. Yes, Uber's behavior here is reprehensible. But it's also kid stuff compared to what other entities (including the Federal Government itself, whose behavior we never agreed to in a TOS agreement) are engaged in, and I have to wonder what, if any, authority the government could exert in these circumstances (disregarding the appropriateness of the use of said authority, or any potential le…

I see what you're saying, but there are two things that make this more egregious than other (assumed) offenses. First, Uber did this brazenly and, one could argue, openly. Their hubris needs to be curbed this way. Second, Uber explicitly wanted to go after a member of the press. The press is our shield against all the evil that is done against the public by governments and corporations. We need our journalists to fee…

[deleted]

Re: Senator Al Franken's Letter to Uber [pdf]

#70

Post by austinshea »

[deleted] wrote: post #60
dworin wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Senators also have dozens of staff members who support them, especially on issues they're passionate about or committees they're involved in. And the committees themselves have their own staffs. Most likely one of these staff members is both deeply familiar with these specific issues and contributed heavily to this letter.

[deleted]

This letter is high level, and does not go into extensive detail. Why are you so defensive? The story may have been invented, and it may be accurate.

You are making it clear that you have an emotional interest in the story, and the people responding to you are just readers of this website.

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